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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I was bored today and thought I would try some stuff on my own with the stupid tranny after multiple service visits with no real change. 1st off....the original pre-TSB's dip stick is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get an accurate reading from. Even with several dips one after the other it is very hard to tell exactly where it comes up on the stick, and each time seems to be drasticly different. I get the feeling that when the dealer says they checked the level (assuming they really did), they were probably not getting a good accurate read. Anyhow, after getting the escape good and hot vs just up to temp and doing a check....I see lots of bubbles on the stick despite my best guess with multiple dips appears to be about 25% up the crosshatch...so while that SHOULD be comfortably in range if not a bit on the low side, it is pretty clear to me that it is NOT in a good range and either overfilled or underfilled. From there I thought it best to remove some fluid vs put more in. Adding more if it was already overfilled wouldnt be as noticeable and immediate change as taking more out if it was underfilled. End result:

1) sucked out 8oz.....no change

2) sucked out another 8oz for 1/2qt total...wow, almost immeadiate difference. Shifts much easier and the whole drivetrain just felt like it operated more freely. Still got a bit of a rise on the tach with a couple gears although not near as prominent before. Just slipped 100 or 2 vs 300+ like very often happens before.

3) sucked out another 8oz for a full qt out of it.....Still feels good like the last attempt, and shifts at all gears are perfectly normal. Also after the escape was initially warmed up, did about a 20 mi highway loop no stops with the MPG reset as sort of a ghetto way to see if there was any difference with engine load. That yielded 25.9mpg. Did the same loop again, same speed (55 even for testing purposes), same tank of gas, same day with no significant change in wind or anything....and this time it was 31.8mpg. Now I know those numbers dont mean squat and arent real average MPG numbers with it freshly reset...but it calculates the same way each time so it does demonstrate the fluid removal being easier on the drivetrain.

It is dark out now so since that damn dipstick is hard enough to use in the daylight, I figure I will look at it tomorow as well as see how it behaves from a cold start. I did pull it real quick to check for bubbles though, which there wer none now. So if that stick is totally wrong, the fluid should be at a useable level at least. As far as the fluid itself goes...didnt smell burnt, and looks ok with the white paper towl test, but sitting in the jar it is pretty dark and used up. Now what sucks is there is probably no easy way to convince them to flush it under warranty even though it shouldnt look like that with 10k. Def gunna push to get the new model dipstick in.
 

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Thanks for the heads up Chief... I have really only been paying attention to the floor of the garage [looking for leaks.] This has to be the strangest transmission that Ford has ever tried to produce. It leaks out of every seal, shifts like a 10 year old driving a clutch and has a dipstick that doesn't give you a proper reading on the fluid.

In 5+ years, I can see the visits to the dealer now...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have had no problems with leaks yet, just performance issues. I've caught a couple flares since now, but still nothing like before...so not quite perfect but behaves better then before. I do agree about the strangeness though....lots of common issues with flares and all not to mention the half shaft leaks that dont seem to ever get resolved....then the myraid of different parts used in these things too, particularly the valve body. I think in the back of my mind I have already decided this vehicle wont be a keeper. I just hope I make it to owning it for a few years before trading it in to make it semi-worthwhile. I dont think these transmissions will make it to being old and gray AT ALL, but I am confident it will at least last me 3 to 5yrs OK....just knowing something isnt quite right with em and its quirkiness while driving just bugs me for a new car, which will probably get the better of me to get enother car. The quirkiness would be one thing with some age and miles, but for a new car, shouldnt happen.
 

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A bit OT but.....

Here's a issue that I'm going to call the "Death Lag" from now on, a term I found describing this in some other vehicle.

Play with this. Leave from a dead stop, accelerate normally for a second, apply the brake but don't come to a full stop and then try to accelerate. See if you get a hesitation. It can vary in lenght depending on the timing, etc.

If you ever tried to accelerate and you thought, "Is my foot on the accelerator?", it happened!!

A few weeks ago I almost got T-boned when my '09 did this in the middle of a left-hand turn. I took it in, no codes, Ford had no known issues, passed a test drive so nothing was done.

I know of a another '09 owner that has the same problem with a twist, sometimes the engine dies!

A filed a report with the NHTSA and right now I'm in contact with Ford Customer Service. Since I can reproduce the event at will, I'd like to set up a special Show n Tell appointment so maybe it can be recorded somehow.

Oh, I wasn't told that Ford suggested using a flight recorder but theirs is/was out at the time. I think that they have no other means to record other than with that unit.
 

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I continue to have repeat problems with mine. Ford thinks I am full of crap but I continue to take it in. I've had mine in 17 times for transmission problems and yet they supposedly find nothing. Mine will do the following: Going from brake to gas, just in that short amount of time, will shit up throwing me into the intersection - has almost caused me several accidents.; going from a stop, will be sluggish and then all of a sudden, instead of shifting up, will actually shift down and cause the RPMs to go to like 5+ and then it will shift up very quickly once the computer realizes they are too high for the speed.. and the list goes on. I love this vehicle, but I regret buying it now. The transmission is a piece of crap. I wish I could have the option of having the 5 speed put in. I'd sacrifice some MPGs in order to be happier. :censor:
 

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Had a VW with a similar problem. I drained the refilled the ATX and replaced it with the amount the manual said to add. The car didn't have an external oil cooler. I drove it to and from work the next day and on the way home it started to shift hard. When I got home I pulled the dipstick and it was covered with foamed up fluid. I drained some of the fluid till it showed on the full line and then drove it around. Shifted smooth and positive after this. It was difficult to check the fluid level because the dipstick hole is also used as a filler. It would take some time for the fluid to totally exit down the tube and show the true level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Now what I would like to know is if these transmissions higher or lower fluid when cold. In other words if the torque convertor drains back into the pan after shut down or more or less stays put. I've seen em both ways over time. Some transmissions stay pretty constant fluid level running or not, and even have cold marks lower down on the stick then hot marks, and I have seen it the opposite way where cold is usually much higher then hot level despite the absence of heat expansion cause the fluid is not fully taken in by the tq converter and valve body till its running and pumped in. I dont know where these 6F35's fall.

Right now, still cant get a good reading on the stick while running...I really hate this stick. Even with wiping the stick totally dry in between consecutive dips, I just get random wetness up the stick to varying degrees and up to widely varying distances. Only after shut down can I get a solid readable coat on it. With the now 1qt out, Sometimes it will stretch/cover across the bottom hole, sometimes it wont, and is mostly just random wet slivers up the stick ending at random spots....and this is with multiple consecutive dips during the same check. with it cold sitting over night and not running, its at an easy to read and consistent 30% or so into the crosshatch. So since I cant get a reading that i feel is accurate while running, I cant even really guestimate if it is too high or low when cold. If its the type that the level is lower cold and higher when its at temp due to heat/expansion, it could still be on the high side...but if it drains a good bit back when not running thus should be a good bit higher when cold, that would mean mine is very low at the present state by the stick. One thing for sure though, no more bubbles at temp which means its not being aerated like before. I really dont want to put any significant miles on it without knowing for sure which is annoying.

Also, anyone know of any place to pick up mercon LV off the shelf besides the dealer? Or how bout a good way of convincing the dealer to take a legit sample and push for a warranted fluid change? While the stuff I pulled out doesnt have much of a burnt oder to it compared to really fubar'd fluid, it is VERY dark and pretty much resembles the look of grape juice to a T. Shouldn't be like that at 10k mi unless its pretty dark to begin with. If I can get the propper level worked out, if the dealer wont do it, I at least want to transfuse what I can out of it a few times to get some new stuff in there. If whats in it right now isnt already fubared, I am sure it is prob used up a good bit from the aeration or something.
 

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My '09's level is just into the cross hatch marks which is the new "flat tow" adjusted level although I don't tow. When cold it's about 3/8" over the full mark. I have the OEM dipstick not the upgraded version. Yes, they are hard to get a good reading and sometimes you have to look at the backside of the dipstick to figure what's just a smear mark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
wptski said:
My '09's level is just into the cross hatch marks which is the new "flat tow" adjusted level although I don't tow. When cold it's about 3/8" over the full mark. I have the OEM dipstick not the upgraded version. Yes, they are hard to get a good reading and sometimes you have to look at the backside of the dipstick to figure what's just a smear mark.
Thanks for that.

Anyhow, full overnight stone cold left me about 3/4" above full vs 1/3 up the hatches cooled down for several hours. I guess it takes awhile for it all to drain out. I took out a little more, about maybe 1/3qt to get it 1/2" above the full. I dont expect there will be much change (havent driven it yet since) as there was no bubbles in the fluid after the initial posts. I think I may reset it and relearn again as well. I wonder if that will make a difference since the last time it relearned was overfilled and aerated, which means line pressures and all probably werent consistent.

At either rate, it operates MUCH better these days. The transmission, and overall drivetrain, doesnt feel like such a turd anymore...much more responsive and free feeling....except for the occaisional hunting for the right gear and sometimes picking the wrong one that all autos do. Only real problem is the slipping/shift flares now. Sounds like maybe one of the revision C valve bodies would do the trick for me...and maybe clutch pack for the affected gears depending what kind of shape they are in. Hopefully the dealer will come to the same conclusion when I get around to bringing it in again.
 

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C17chief said:
wptski said:
My '09's level is just into the cross hatch marks which is the new "flat tow" adjusted level although I don't tow. When cold it's about 3/8" over the full mark. I have the OEM dipstick not the upgraded version. Yes, they are hard to get a good reading and sometimes you have to look at the backside of the dipstick to figure what's just a smear mark.
Thanks for that.

Anyhow, full overnight stone cold left me about 3/4" above full vs 1/3 up the hatches cooled down for several hours. I guess it takes awhile for it all to drain out. I took out a little more, about maybe 1/3qt to get it 1/2" above the full. I dont expect there will be much change (havent driven it yet since) as there was no bubbles in the fluid after the initial posts. I think I may reset it and relearn again as well. I wonder if that will make a difference since the last time it relearned was overfilled and aerated, which means line pressures and all probably werent consistent.

At either rate, it operates MUCH better these days. The transmission, and overall drivetrain, doesnt feel like such a turd anymore...much more responsive and free feeling....except for the occaisional hunting for the right gear and sometimes picking the wrong one that all autos do. Only real problem is the slipping/shift flares now. Sounds like maybe one of the revision C valve bodies would do the trick for me...and maybe clutch pack for the affected gears depending what kind of shape they are in. Hopefully the dealer will come to the same conclusion when I get around to bringing it in again.
Since you've adjusted the level, you might know. How much difference of fluid in oz. is it between the top and bottom of the cross hatch? I'm just wondering if running a low ATF level can cause the Death Lag that I mentioned above? I've read that this is partly caused by low ATF pressure when the system is put under a high demand.
 

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If it helps, when my car was in for a couple of things (at the dealer from Hell...another story) last week, the advisor said "there is a TSB on your tranny...for reprogramming"

I indicated it was already done, when I bought the car in April. She said "no, this is a new one and fixes those hard shifts". Stupid me never thought to ask for the TSB number, and knowing that dealership's service department they probably wouldn't tell me anyway.

I never had any of the stalling, etc problems since I bought it, but I did get some of those learning-to-drive-a-stickshift second to third shifts on light acceleration. Since the reprogramming it does shift smoother and seems to pick the right gear 90% of the time....the best you can hope from an automatic, I think.

This would not solve the fluid issue, but I suspect that foaming fluid may be related to overheated tranny temps, and perhaps this TSB could stop that. My fluid after 20,000km is still perfect.
 

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Kmoose,

If should be indicated on your service receipt. If you could, post what it is if you have it or when you get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
wptski said:
Since you've adjusted the level, you might know. How much difference of fluid in oz. is it between the top and bottom of the cross hatch? I'm just wondering if running a low ATF level can cause the Death Lag that I mentioned above? I've read that this is partly caused by low ATF pressure when the system is put under a high demand.
That I couldnt tell ya since the only consistent clear reading on that stick I can get is with it cold. From whatever level mine was at before the start of this removing bits of fluid, my aim was just to at least guestimate it to a more acceptable level since I was seeing bubbles on the stick. I took just enough out to make the bubbles go away, then took out a bit more to match what you were seeing cold...I figured if I went too low, bubbles would appear again before it got dangerously low from the pump sucking in air. No change matching yours, but I think I may replace that last 1/3 qt given that.

I'm going to ultimately take it to the dealer again for the shift flares/slipping as mentioned, but I wont be able to for a few weeks still.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
kmoose said:
If it helps, when my car was in for a couple of things (at the dealer from Hell...another story) last week, the advisor said "there is a TSB on your tranny...for reprogramming"

I indicated it was already done, when I bought the car in April. She said "no, this is a new one and fixes those hard shifts". Stupid me never thought to ask for the TSB number, and knowing that dealership's service department they probably wouldn't tell me anyway.

I never had any of the stalling, etc problems since I bought it, but I did get some of those learning-to-drive-a-stickshift second to third shifts on light acceleration. Since the reprogramming it does shift smoother and seems to pick the right gear 90% of the time....the best you can hope from an automatic, I think.

This would not solve the fluid issue, but I suspect that foaming fluid may be related to overheated tranny temps, and perhaps this TSB could stop that. My fluid after 20,000km is still perfect.
There are/were several TSB's related to this transmission, including a couple reflash ones, but I think the one they were referencing is the 10B15 which unless your dealer was really really on top of things, doubt they flashed all affected vehicles on the lot by that time. I think May is when that one came out.

By the time everything was said and done, transmission relearned with some miles and all, 10B15 did not do anything for the slipping/flares in mine.
 
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