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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So after my stock 6 cd changer stopped working in my 2003 escape limited, I decided to replace the head unit. After that I decided to upgrade the factory sub/amp. This is the first time fooling around with this stuff so it was kind of a sloppy install, but everything is working to my liking.

First I installed the Pioneer FH-P8000BT double din in the dash:


FH-P8000BT - It looks bad because I still have to hook up XM so I just threw it in for the time being. Faceplate and a better mounting job will be done after that.

I don't have pictures of the process, just the final product. This is the 2003 model, so it has a different setup than the 8" woofer install discussed earlier on the forum.

The sub I installed was 6.5" 150W RMS Kicker 10CVT654. The amp is a 600W Kenwood KAC-6104D class D monowoofer. The sub and woofer plus 4 gauge cable cost $167 shipped from millionbuy.com. Cheap was a priority here, since I'm unemployed :D. Another priority was keeping the car looking stock, as I need all of my trunk space. Therefore I had to fit it in the tiny back right panel. That's the main reason I went with the amp I did, even though it was still a tough fit.


The install. Lots of carving down the plastic unit which held the factory sub and amp.


Another view


The amp mounted


Sub mounted with ultra expensive sound dampening material(a cut up sweatband)


Bottom of amp, a very tight fit


Top of amp, also a tight fit when putting the panel back on

If it wasn't a million degrees outside in Georgia right now I might have spent a bit more time on it making it look pretty, but its form functional.

I plan on buying some cheap dampening material and do the door panel/back portion of the car. Right now it vibrates a ton at high volume. Can anyone recommend ultra cheap dampening stuff to do this? I read about a some people using the under-carpet padding that they sell at Lowe's, and applying it with a hot glue gun, as a cheap and good alternative to stuff like Dynamat. Any input?

Thanks fourthmeal and others for all the advice doing this!
 

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If your willing to extend and spend, time, effort and money on your sound system why not do it right the first time. In short, get the dynamat to eliminate vibration. In fact, what vibration because the only place where your going to experience excessive vibrating is on the rear hatch license plate. Simply secure the rear plate with additional screws or dynamat behind the plate and that will eliminate your problem. I'm familiar with this because I have two 12" subs in my Escape.
 

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Are my eyes deceiving me or did you leave the subwoofer enclosure with a hole in it?! A subwoofer's enclosure is what makes a sub work. Exception: Infinite Baffle subs designs, but even with those the front wave is separate from the back wave. You will need to fix this or the bass will end up less than stock due to rampant cancellations.'

Inexpensive yet quality deadening would be RAAMmat, from RAAMaudio.com. Get the BXTII stuff, not the original. Unless you enjoy cleaning asphalt junk off everything you own. You mean to tell me there are people out there who are suggesting JUTE carpet padding provides sound deadening? A few things about deadening: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com also a great place to buy.
 

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Its ok to cut it, but you have to repair it to make the enclosure an... enclosure. Fiberglass would be the way to go.

Overall, I admire your tenacity, but your execution and follow-through are quite rough. Practice-practice-practice, and remember there are acoustic laws to understand and work within. The basics can be learned at http://www.bcae1.com if you need a foundation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
okay okay so I sent that sub and amp back, and I'm going to drop money on a quality, probably 12" sub, and do fourthmeal's spare tire well install. I'm also going to put in a 5 channel amp to power the speakers. I'm going to upgrade my mid range speakers to 6.5" ones for better sound.

I plan on making the the sub enclosure/board out of red cedar, because I love the smell of it so it should make a good permanent air freshener for my car.

I checked out sound deadener showdown and I am going to get 40 or 50 sheets of his CLD tiles for dampening and some of his Butyl ropes.

For deadening MVL I am gonna go with this since I can get a bit more for cheaper and can pick it up locally:

http://www.cyber-bridge-marine.com/Soun ... rrier.html

and for the foam I am going to go with this, also because I can get thicker and more for cheaper:

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/gymnasticrubber.html

I don't plan on going as far as taking all the seats and carpeting out because I think that might be a bit of an undertaking, but well see how it goes. I don't have a job right now so I might change my mind on that. Speaking of not having a job, how am I gonna afford all this :shock:
 

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Now you are talking. IMO, Purchase 20 tiles from Don, and get BXTII from Rick. There are times you just don't want to use such massive tiles so that's what the bxtII is for. Like sealing the doors and all those little holes.

Keep in mind, my builds are on newer models, which have the spare tire under the car. So, we have a different platform to start with. Are you pulling your spare or do you want to work within the constraints of leaving the stock spare?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
fourthmeal said:
Now you are talking. IMO, Purchase 20 tiles from Don, and get BXTII from Rick. There are times you just don't want to use such massive tiles so that's what the bxtII is for. Like sealing the doors and all those little holes.

Keep in mind, my builds are on newer models, which have the spare tire under the car. So, we have a different platform to start with. Are you pulling your spare or do you want to work within the constraints of leaving the stock spare?
I think the spare is coming out. I have AAA and I've been driving since 2001 and have never had to use a spare tire. I am sure as soon as I take it out I am going to need it but I guess thats what cell phones are for.

My first question is the I bought a Pioneer Pioneer+FH-P8000BT headunit, the http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130P8000BT ... FH-P8000BT, a few weeks back. Should I return this and go with something else? I am not too crazy about it's controls. I do want to stick with something Pioneer+iPod since I bought a Pioneer XM receiver already.

So far I've worked out:

Deadening:
CLD Panels(40): $98
Butyl Ropes(2): $15
CCF: 32ft^2 - 1/2" - $35
32^2 - 3/8" - $27
MVL: 100ft^2 $110
Glue, Misc: $30

Wood/Construction: ~$100

Electronic Hardware:
Sub: Fi Q 12" ~$200
Mid-Ranges: ??? ~$150
HeadUnit: ??? ~$200
Amp: ???~$250
Wiring: ??? ~$50

For a total of around $1,250 which is a general ballpark, but in reality I am going to have to bring this down to under $1,000. I think I can find mid ranges for a bit cheaper and hopefully a cheaper amp and quality sub. I have searched a lot and can't find deadening stuff for any cheaper.

A guy over at DIYMobile is trying to do something similar so I will use some of the advice hes getting:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/no- ... camry.html
 

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My suggestions in BOLD in your post
wklose99 said:
fourthmeal said:
Now you are talking. IMO, Purchase 20 tiles from Don, and get BXTII from Rick. There are times you just don't want to use such massive tiles so that's what the bxtII is for. Like sealing the doors and all those little holes.

Keep in mind, my builds are on newer models, which have the spare tire under the car. So, we have a different platform to start with. Are you pulling your spare or do you want to work within the constraints of leaving the stock spare?
I think the spare is coming out. I have AAA and I've been driving since 2001 and have never had to use a spare tire. I am sure as soon as I take it out I am going to need it but I guess thats what cell phones are for.

My first question is the I bought a Pioneer Pioneer+FH-P8000BT headunit, the http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130P8000BT ... FH-P8000BT, a few weeks back. Should I return this and go with something else? I am not too crazy about it's controls. I do want to stick with something Pioneer+iPod since I bought a Pioneer XM receiver already.

So far I've worked out:

Deadening:
CLD Panels(40): $98 Like I said, 1/2 that with 20, and buy BXTII instead. The reason is that those tiles are sometimes too thick. I LOVE what Don has here but if you use only CLD tiles you will not have a thin enough, light enough product for some parts of your doors and trunk.
Butyl Ropes(2): $15 I don't remember how much I purchased but I think it was the smallest amount I could. I have put 4 builds together and still haven't even opened the other roll. This stuff goes a long, long way so buy the smallest amount you can. It is fantastic for things aside from car audio as well.
CCF: 32ft^2 - 1/2" - $35
32^2 - 3/8" - $27 This looks real good but may be too thick, especially if it is gym mat instead of Don's nitrile CCF. You probably won't need that much btw. Some people like to cover the entire car, and while this is potentially very good you have to ask yourself just how far you want to go. For me, I did my doors and my trunk, and that's it. Others cover the entire floor and if you want to, go for it. IMO this car isn't a "keeper" so I kept things on a more sane level. The 1/2" material is probably too thick BTW. Your door and trim panels are simply not going to fit if you make your total layer thickness more than 1/4" anywhere. Sometimes less (hence the above suggestion to use BXTII in some places.) This stuff is not a very effective barrier, it is a rattle stopper for the most part and a tiny bit of a barrier. I would probably suggest you get enough material to do a thin layer in your doors, your hatch lid, and your trunk floor. But no more than that.

MVL: 100ft^2 $110 Following the same logic as the CCF material, you probably have WAY too much here. Its a good price you are getting but even so I think 100 sq ft would last me 5 cars or more. This material is great in the trunk area, and the doors/tailgate if you attach it correctly. I would think 1/3 of your order will be used effectively but its really up to you on how far you want to take it.
Glue, Misc: $30

Wood/Construction: ~$100

Electronic Hardware:
Sub: Fi Q 12" ~$200 This is a great sub but it isn't going into a false floor design anytime soon. If you want to just build a conventional box (ported for a Q), then this is a great choice. I would also highly recommend you visit one of my favorite sub builders, John at Acoustic Elegance http://www.aespeakers.com, consider the AV12H or even the AV15H, if you aren't going false floor for the sub. If you ARE going false floor for the sub, things need to be much smaller, so powerful 8" subs come to mind, or even 6.5" subs like the quartet I installed in my truck recently. A single shallow 12 or 15 is also possible. It just depends.
Mid-Ranges: ??? ~$150 At this point you need to educate yourself on what an active system is. If you want to make the single biggest improvement in sound quality (not bass, but all the rest of the musical spectrum), you need to consider going active. You are clumping mid-range speakers together but in reality there are tweeters, true mid-range, and woofers. You can buy coaxial speakers but that's not going to cut it for high sound quality. You can buy components, a step up... but it gets better. If you go active, you can actually purchase individual woofers and tweeters and amplify each one separately, which gives you precise control over how it all sounds and how it turns out. IMO, if you are considering putting this much time and effort into it, you really need to consider going active. Home theater speakers use passive crossovers on their woofer and tweeters because the drivers are contained in a properly designed, properly distanced enclosure relative to your ears. In a car, we contend with many other variables and because our legs and parts of the car get in the way, sometimes we install tweeters in the door panel or A-pillar. Doing this means you are separating the location of the woofer and the tweeter. What that means to you is that potentially, their sound will arrive to your ears at different times and that creates disparity, and your ears are extremely sensitive to this. What is the acoustic result? Smeared soundstage, and a sense of unrealistic sound. The solution is active processing. By individually controlling each woofer and tweeter, and controlling their time alignment, the end result is a system that is as coherent and clear as a home theater setup, in your car. And that has been the goal all along for most people. To go active, you need to involve a single channel of amplifier power per speaker (just the front drivers need this, the rears can go on standard head unit power), and you need processing. You can use a stand-alone processor like the new and extremely powerful JBL MS8 (highly recommended), you can purchase a head unit that can do it onboard (no double-din units, only single din high-end), or you can even purchase a certain select few amps that have onboard processing like the Kenwood X4R (which I have for my truck.) If I were in charge of building your system, I would immediately gravitate towards one of these solutions.
HeadUnit: ??? ~$200 (depends what you like. If you like the idea of active processing built into the deck, and are ok with single-din units instead of double-din, then by all means upgrade. If you want a double-din but don't like what you have, consider the Pioneer AV-H series. I have the 3200DVD model and love it, in my Acura. Head units can always be upgraded later, to save your budget. Your price range needs to be adjusted higher if you want better quality though. About $400-500 buys a good double-din, 300-400 buys a great single-din (with active processing, potentially)
Amp: ???~$250 (if you are going two amps, like the on-board processing X4R / X1R, then you need to upgrade this budget. If you are going with processing in a separate unit and a 5ch/6ch amp, then $250 is semi-fair. I highly recommend you purchase separate amps in most situations, given the versatility and expandability for future builds and designs. But your budget is OK in most situations of entry-level amps.
Wiring: ??? ~$50

For a total of around $1,250 which is a general ballpark, but in reality I am going to have to bring this down to under $1,000. I think I can find mid ranges for a bit cheaper and hopefully a cheaper amp and quality sub. I have searched a lot and can't find deadening stuff for any cheaper.

If I were in your shoes, I would purchase the MS8, a mild monoblock amp, a mild 4ch amp, a set of Dayton RS180 woofers, Dayton ND20FA tweeters in the A-pillar(same in my Acura), a single Acoustic Elegance AV12H ported to a 28hz tune, the deadening materials I outlined above, and keep the head unit for now while I let the MS8 do the real work. Total costs varies based on the price you can buy an MS8 for (some lucky f'ers got the thing for 1/2 price or better), but $1000-1300 seems doable.

A guy over at DIYMobile is trying to do something similar so I will use some of the advice hes getting:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/no- ... camry.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
fourthmeal said:
My suggestions in BOLD in your post
wklose99 said:
fourthmeal said:
Now you are talking. IMO, Purchase 20 tiles from Don, and get BXTII from Rick. There are times you just don't want to use such massive tiles so that's what the bxtII is for. Like sealing the doors and all those little holes.

Keep in mind, my builds are on newer models, which have the spare tire under the car. So, we have a different platform to start with. Are you pulling your spare or do you want to work within the constraints of leaving the stock spare?
I think the spare is coming out. I have AAA and I've been driving since 2001 and have never had to use a spare tire. I am sure as soon as I take it out I am going to need it but I guess thats what cell phones are for.

My first question is the I bought a Pioneer Pioneer+FH-P8000BT headunit, the http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130P8000BT ... FH-P8000BT, a few weeks back. Should I return this and go with something else? I am not too crazy about it's controls. I do want to stick with something Pioneer+iPod since I bought a Pioneer XM receiver already.

So far I've worked out:

Deadening:
CLD Panels(40): $98 Like I said, 1/2 that with 20, and buy BXTII instead. The reason is that those tiles are sometimes too thick. I LOVE what Don has here but if you use only CLD tiles you will not have a thin enough, light enough product for some parts of your doors and trunk.
Butyl Ropes(2): $15 I don't remember how much I purchased but I think it was the smallest amount I could. I have put 4 builds together and still haven't even opened the other roll. This stuff goes a long, long way so buy the smallest amount you can. It is fantastic for things aside from car audio as well.
CCF: 32ft^2 - 1/2" - $35
32^2 - 3/8" - $27 This looks real good but may be too thick, especially if it is gym mat instead of Don's nitrile CCF. You probably won't need that much btw. Some people like to cover the entire car, and while this is potentially very good you have to ask yourself just how far you want to go. For me, I did my doors and my trunk, and that's it. Others cover the entire floor and if you want to, go for it. IMO this car isn't a "keeper" so I kept things on a more sane level. The 1/2" material is probably too thick BTW. Your door and trim panels are simply not going to fit if you make your total layer thickness more than 1/4" anywhere. Sometimes less (hence the above suggestion to use BXTII in some places.) This stuff is not a very effective barrier, it is a rattle stopper for the most part and a tiny bit of a barrier. I would probably suggest you get enough material to do a thin layer in your doors, your hatch lid, and your trunk floor. But no more than that.

MVL: 100ft^2 $110 Following the same logic as the CCF material, you probably have WAY too much here. Its a good price you are getting but even so I think 100 sq ft would last me 5 cars or more. This material is great in the trunk area, and the doors/tailgate if you attach it correctly. I would think 1/3 of your order will be used effectively but its really up to you on how far you want to take it.
Glue, Misc: $30

Wood/Construction: ~$100

Electronic Hardware:
Sub: Fi Q 12" ~$200 This is a great sub but it isn't going into a false floor design anytime soon. If you want to just build a conventional box (ported for a Q), then this is a great choice. I would also highly recommend you visit one of my favorite sub builders, John at Acoustic Elegance http://www.aespeakers.com, consider the AV12H or even the AV15H, if you aren't going false floor for the sub. If you ARE going false floor for the sub, things need to be much smaller, so powerful 8" subs come to mind, or even 6.5" subs like the quartet I installed in my truck recently. A single shallow 12 or 15 is also possible. It just depends.
Mid-Ranges: ??? ~$150 At this point you need to educate yourself on what an active system is. If you want to make the single biggest improvement in sound quality (not bass, but all the rest of the musical spectrum), you need to consider going active. You are clumping mid-range speakers together but in reality there are tweeters, true mid-range, and woofers. You can buy coaxial speakers but that's not going to cut it for high sound quality. You can buy components, a step up... but it gets better. If you go active, you can actually purchase individual woofers and tweeters and amplify each one separately, which gives you precise control over how it all sounds and how it turns out. IMO, if you are considering putting this much time and effort into it, you really need to consider going active. Home theater speakers use passive crossovers on their woofer and tweeters because the drivers are contained in a properly designed, properly distanced enclosure relative to your ears. In a car, we contend with many other variables and because our legs and parts of the car get in the way, sometimes we install tweeters in the door panel or A-pillar. Doing this means you are separating the location of the woofer and the tweeter. What that means to you is that potentially, their sound will arrive to your ears at different times and that creates disparity, and your ears are extremely sensitive to this. What is the acoustic result? Smeared soundstage, and a sense of unrealistic sound. The solution is active processing. By individually controlling each woofer and tweeter, and controlling their time alignment, the end result is a system that is as coherent and clear as a home theater setup, in your car. And that has been the goal all along for most people. To go active, you need to involve a single channel of amplifier power per speaker (just the front drivers need this, the rears can go on standard head unit power), and you need processing. You can use a stand-alone processor like the new and extremely powerful JBL MS8 (highly recommended), you can purchase a head unit that can do it onboard (no double-din units, only single din high-end), or you can even purchase a certain select few amps that have onboard processing like the Kenwood X4R (which I have for my truck.) If I were in charge of building your system, I would immediately gravitate towards one of these solutions.
HeadUnit: ??? ~$200 (depends what you like. If you like the idea of active processing built into the deck, and are ok with single-din units instead of double-din, then by all means upgrade. If you want a double-din but don't like what you have, consider the Pioneer AV-H series. I have the 3200DVD model and love it, in my Acura. Head units can always be upgraded later, to save your budget. Your price range needs to be adjusted higher if you want better quality though. About $400-500 buys a good double-din, 300-400 buys a great single-din (with active processing, potentially)
Amp: ???~$250 (if you are going two amps, like the on-board processing X4R / X1R, then you need to upgrade this budget. If you are going with processing in a separate unit and a 5ch/6ch amp, then $250 is semi-fair. I highly recommend you purchase separate amps in most situations, given the versatility and expandability for future builds and designs. But your budget is OK in most situations of entry-level amps.
Wiring: ??? ~$50

For a total of around $1,250 which is a general ballpark, but in reality I am going to have to bring this down to under $1,000. I think I can find mid ranges for a bit cheaper and hopefully a cheaper amp and quality sub. I have searched a lot and can't find deadening stuff for any cheaper.

If I were in your shoes, I would purchase the MS8, a mild monoblock amp, a mild 4ch amp, a set of Dayton RS180 woofers, Dayton ND20FA tweeters in the A-pillar(same in my Acura), a single Acoustic Elegance AV12H ported to a 28hz tune, the deadening materials I outlined above, and keep the head unit for now while I let the MS8 do the real work. Total costs varies based on the price you can buy an MS8 for (some lucky f'ers got the thing for 1/2 price or better), but $1000-1300 seems doable.

A guy over at DIYMobile is trying to do something similar so I will use some of the advice hes getting:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/no- ... camry.html
Yeah I looked at the MS8 but at $1,000 its not even an option. Based on the above recommendations I'm going to split the CLD order with RaaMmat, get thinner CCF. The gym mat stuff I have on there is Vinyl Nitrile CCF, I don't think Don's can be any different, I just need to order it thinner. As for the MVL I'll probably cut back on that a bit too. I plan on dampening/deadening all the doors, trunk floor, side of trunk, and the tailgate.

As for the electronics, I think I will go with active crossover. I have been looking at the amp you suggested and if I can save some on a sub, headunit, and speakers I could get that.

Also, since I am taking out my spare I measured it and I have about 8"-10" of vertical space to put a sub in. The one I am currently looking at is about 6" of depth, as suggested on DIY, is:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=293-656

I still want to replace the headunit, I don't really like the delay and controls on this Pioneer. What would be a quality single din to pair with this active crossover amp?
I also need to start looking to the front speakers. Has any one successfully installed 6.5" speakers in the escape doors? I want to do it without modifying the trim panels.
 

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people were buying MS8's for 1/2 that or less, at some point they were ~$450. Ridiculous for what it does and what it is capable of. They def. aren't a grand.

So if you want to run the X4R as your main amp, that's going to run $200-250 depending on where you get it. I bought mine refurb'd off ebay, has some really minor scratches, all new guts. Great unit. If you are worried about it, you can purchase a squaretrade swapout warranty if you want. You also need a sub amp. The matching X1R is very powerful (too powerful?!), but there are tons of other great sub amps. I have an issue with matching stuff, so the X1R was the only choice for me.

One thing you must consider is that when you have, say, a 6" deep sub... you also have ~3/4" height on top (for the lip), you need space under the sub for your fiberglass or wood sub box bottom, and you need airspace between the sub and the bottom for pole venting. Add to this that you need around an inch free space on top of the sub so you don't smack the sub into anything. These spaces add up rather quickly to about 3-4" of room. So to review, more space than thought is usually the order of things. To do true false floors in the builds I have done so far, I usually work with relatively shallow subwoofers. You don't need to go true shallow like the Stereo Integrity BM mkIII, but you might need to find something in the 4.5"-5" depth range or less if possible. Alternately, you can go 6.5" or 8", and sit them on their side. This protects the subwoofer more and may suit a truly stealth build better. A high power 8 will do a lot in a properly ported box. Hell my quartet of 6.5" ported subs does about what my pair of sealed AE 10's do in my Acura. Again, if you are OK with semi-stealth, high performance sound, the AV12H gets my top vote. The sound quality from my pair in my Acura make me smile every single time I hear them, and I've yet to year a sub with less distortion. I'm also a fan of Fi (Ascendant) but The AE subs possess a far better motor design (Lambda) and the butyl rubber surrounds and hand-spun aluminum cones are much more robust than what Fi (Ascendant) is currently producing.

edit: 6.5" drivers fit fine in the 5x7 opening of the door, just build a simple thin wood baffle (or use cutting board plastic) and seal everything up. I always use light foam to create a gasket of sorts between the door skin and the door itself, so the woofer's sound goes directly to the cabin instead of getting caught up in between the door and the door skin (distortion.) A 5x7 and 6.5" are interchangeable with a simple baffle adapter you can make in 5 minutes with a jigsaw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The MS8 is simply out of the question for me. Deadning/dampening alone is going to be $350, on top of a $500 sound processor there's no way that'll happen.

So far I've bought a Pioneer DEH-P6900UB and a TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC sub. I have a pending buy on a set of Diamond Audio D662 - 6.5" convertible set and am still looking for a cheap X4R.

I was wondering if there is anyway I can avoid buying two amps and instead get a 5 channel amp and an independent active crossover unit. This would make it so I don't have to run two power cables to the trunk.

I am also thinking of sticking with the X4R and just running the front two speakers on active Xover amp'd power from the X4R, with a passive crossover to the tweeter, and then bridge the other two channels to the sub and just running the back two speakers, a set of Memphis Audio, from the HU and balancing them out a bit.

That's more within my budget and I might do that to see how it sounds.
 

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wklose99 said:
The MS8 is simply out of the question for me. Deadning/dampening alone is going to be $350, on top of a $500 sound processor there's no way that'll happen.

So far I've bought a Pioneer DEH-P6900UB and a TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC sub. I have a pending buy on a set of Diamond Audio D662 - 6.5" convertible set and am still looking for a cheap X4R.

I was wondering if there is anyway I can avoid buying two amps and instead get a 5 channel amp and an independent active crossover unit. This would make it so I don't have to run two power cables to the trunk.

I am also thinking of sticking with the X4R and just running the front two speakers on active Xover amp'd power from the X4R, with a passive crossover to the tweeter, and then bridge the other two channels to the sub and just running the back two speakers, a set of Memphis Audio, from the HU and balancing them out a bit.

That's more within my budget and I might do that to see how it sounds.
This is where I bought my X4R. A little scratched but new guts inside. They shipped quick too http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood-KAC-X4R-1-2 ... Amplifiers
That little guy and maybe this:

One idea instead of the TC Sounds sub (expensive as it is), consider something like a pair of TB 8" subs ported. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=264-833

I love and have owned TC sounds subs so if it fits your needs then GOOD.

How about a Soundstream 5ch amp? It is big, HOWEVER it has an active crossover onboard. It does NOT have the same processing as the X4R however, and this is where you must understand... there is a big difference. The X4R is not just an active crossover, it is also has time alignment, and parametric EQ. So there is a lot we give up by going to a regular amp. Here it is though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Soundstr ... ioQ5fVideo

Did you return that amp you had in there before? That could be used for the sub if it has enough oomph.
There are a lot of decent mono amps out there too. I once picked up a high power (1000W RMS) TREO amp at caraudioclassifieds.org for $100 shipped. Deals abound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well since I already bought the TC 10" I'll probably just stick with that. If you think the X4R amp is worth its weight then I'll stick with that and keep my eye out for a good deal on a mono channel. I'll probably get that refurbished off ebay since most of the deals in the classifieds on DIY and other sites aren't much cheaper. I'll probably but the Diamond Audio D6's this week and I should be set as far as electronic components go.

I'm going to go around town tomorrow and see if anyone has MVL locally so I can avoid shipping costs. I'll probably order the CLD and other tiles this weekend from Don and the CCF maybe from another place a bit cheaper.
 

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wklose99 said:
Well since I already bought the TC 10" I'll probably just stick with that. If you think the X4R amp is worth its weight then I'll stick with that and keep my eye out for a good deal on a mono channel. I'll probably get that refurbished off ebay since most of the deals in the classifieds on DIY and other sites aren't much cheaper. I'll probably but the Diamond Audio D6's this week and I should be set as far as electronic components go.

I'm going to go around town tomorrow and see if anyone has MVL locally so I can avoid shipping costs. I'll probably order the CLD and other tiles this weekend from Don and the CCF maybe from another place a bit cheaper.
That's a good plan. FYI, I went without MLV in this vehicle, and things are fine for me. Granted, performance would be better with MLV, but I decided a while ago that this vehicle wasn't "keeper" material, so I stopped short of doing the mlv layers. I ended up with RAAMmat (the old stuff from previous stock...I installed this a few weeks after I bought the truck years ago), then later I added Don's CLD, his 1/4 and 1/8" CCF, and that's it. My doors are sealed up with a mix of all the deadener, the foam, and some of the openings I filled with that plastic corrugated sign material from the "vote for..." signs that were all around my neighborhood. I figured they do more good in my doors blocking sound than blocking my view on the road. I just used butyl rope to place them, then added deadener all around to lock them in place. One must be careful though, because too much material added to the door metal will result in the plastic door skin not going back on the dang car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So I am set on the following. Some of it has been ordered, some not. All prices include shipping.

Electronic:

Sub: $115 - TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=293-656
HU: $113.50 - Pioneer DEH-P6900UB - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/ ... 00UB?tab=C
Amp: $190 - Kenwood KAC-X4R - http://www.ikesound.com/product-exec/pr ... on+KAC-X4R
Mids: $110 - Diamond Audio D6 6.5" w/tweeter - http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/105/119/

Total: $528.50

Sound:
MLV: $150 - 100SF - ebay
CCF: $76 - 112SF - http://www.closedcellfoams.com/gymnasticrubber.html
CLD: $70 - 40SF - http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_inf ... cts_id=786
Rope: $20 - QTY 2 - Unknown
Glue: $12 - QTY 1 - Unknown

Total: $328

Construction(Estimate):
Other Lumber: $80
Misc: $20

Total: $100


Total(Estimate): $957


The CLD is 15 square feet of the eDead 40 mils and 25 sq ft of the eDead 80 mils. While Don has a great website and is very friendly, he is very expensive. His CLD tiles are almost $6 a square foot, whereas the comparable eDead80 is $2 a square foot. A comparable CCF foam I got for $80 would have been over $180 from Don, not including shipping. And while I tried to find MLV within reasonable driving distance of me, I am fairly certain I am going to have to have some shipped for $150 or so. But still, Don charges $106 for a 58.5 SF roll, so getting 100 SF would have cost over $200 shipped.

I have a quick question about the X4R Amp. If I bridge two of the four channels to my sub, can I still use the other two for separate speakers(so basically a 3 channel sub) or do I have to put it in 'bridge' mode, where all 4 channels must be bridged in to 2 channels?
 

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wklose99 said:
So I am set on the following. Some of it has been ordered, some not. All prices include shipping.

Electronic:

Sub: $115 - TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=293-656
HU: $113.50 - Pioneer DEH-P6900UB - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/ ... 00UB?tab=C
Amp: $190 - Kenwood KAC-X4R - http://www.ikesound.com/product-exec/pr ... on+KAC-X4R
Mids: $110 - Diamond Audio D6 6.5" w/tweeter - http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/105/119/

Total: $528.50

Sound:
MLV: $150 - 100SF - ebay
CCF: $76 - 112SF - http://www.closedcellfoams.com/gymnasticrubber.html
CLD: $70 - 40SF - http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_inf ... cts_id=786
Rope: $20 - QTY 2 - Unknown
Glue: $12 - QTY 1 - Unknown

Total: $328

Construction(Estimate):
Other Lumber: $80
Misc: $20

Total: $100


Total(Estimate): $957


The CLD is 15 square feet of the eDead 40 mils and 25 sq ft of the eDead 80 mils. While Don has a great website and is very friendly, he is very expensive. His CLD tiles are almost $6 a square foot, whereas the comparable eDead80 is $2 a square foot. A comparable CCF foam I got for $80 would have been over $180 from Don, not including shipping. And while I tried to find MLV within reasonable driving distance of me, I am fairly certain I am going to have to have some shipped for $150 or so. But still, Don charges $106 for a 58.5 SF roll, so getting 100 SF would have cost over $200 shipped.

I have a quick question about the X4R Amp. If I bridge two of the four channels to my sub, can I still use the other two for separate speakers(so basically a 3 channel sub) or do I have to put it in 'bridge' mode, where all 4 channels must be bridged in to 2 channels?
I would not give you my eDead let alone purchase any. I had horrible experiences with the product, specifically the V1SE model. But hey whatever floats it for you. I would run Rick's product at the very least. 36 sq feet for ~$90. Don's product is an outright bargain for what you get. Lest we compare Dynamat Xtreme to these prices, but Don's product is about twice as thick and efficient.

When you bridge the X4R, you must consider that you lose some of the abilities for that amp side. This amp actually is two amps in one. An "A" side, and a "B" side. For good detail on this, dl and carefully read the owners manual. It may take a few go-arounds to understand how it all works.

By using the amp like this, I have to question if you understand why I suggested the X4r in the first place. It is designed to power a set of tweeters on the A side, and woofers on the B side. This individual channeling allows you to control the time alignment per driver, something I consider really important if the woofer is separated from the tweeter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Alright ill skip the eDead and go with a mix of Don's CLD and BXTII.

Also, I'm looking for an amp for the 10" DVC which is dual 2 ohm cones. It's rated at 500w RMS, max 2000W peak.

I assume I will run them in series so the amp will see a 4 ohm load. I was looking at an Orion Xtreme 800 for $140 on the DIY forums. However, its 4ohm output is 800W RMS. Is that too much, will over easily blow my sub, or could I just turn the gain down on it? What range RMS output should I be looking for, and am I on the right track assuming I should run the sub as a 4ohm load? Is it "ok" to find a 2 channel amp and power each 2 ohm coil on its separate channel or is that not practiced?

edit: spec sheet for Orion 800 amp can be seen here: http://dl.owneriq.net/a/ad6a38d0-d573-4 ... 22ccc7.pdf
 

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wklose99 said:
Alright ill skip the eDead and go with a mix of Don's CLD and BXTII.

Also, I'm looking for an amp for the 10" DVC which is dual 2 ohm cones. It's rated at 500w RMS, max 2000W peak.

I assume I will run them in series so the amp will see a 4 ohm load. I was looking at an Orion Xtreme 800 for $140 on the DIY forums. However, its 4ohm output is 800W RMS. Is that too much, will over easily blow my sub, or could I just turn the gain down on it? What range RMS output should I be looking for, and am I on the right track assuming I should run the sub as a 4ohm load? Is it "ok" to find a 2 channel amp and power each 2 ohm coil on its separate channel or is that not practiced?

edit: spec sheet for Orion 800 amp can be seen here: http://dl.owneriq.net/a/ad6a38d0-d573-4 ... 22ccc7.pdf
Typically easier and cheaper to find is a monoblock 1ohm capable amp, and parallel a dual 2ohm coil does that. A 4ohm amp is fine too, but that is usually going to be a 2ch amp bridged together. Most 2ch amps are class A/B, whereas most monoblock 1ohm capable amps are Class D, which is very efficient. The Orion amp is a beast and is going to draw an incredible amount of current, but don't fear having too much power. Just like the throttle on a powerful car...the car only goes as fast as you step on the pedal. $140 for the Orion is pretty nice.

For fun, I grabbed these off eBay, as suitable options in the monoblock class D (or similar) designs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MB-Quart-RAB145 ... Amplifiers
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PLANET-AUDIO-95 ... Amplifiers
*This one is Sweet, Exile is a great brand* http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Exile-Ca ... ioQ5fVideo
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIAMOND-D3-600-1-MO ... Amplifiers
*This is a tiny, high performance amp, CV is made by Nikola Engineering AKA some of the best in the world http://cgi.ebay.com/Cerwin-Vega-SX500-1 ... Amplifiers
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hifonics ... ioQ5fVideo

You can also match the X4R with the X1R for about ~$250 at plenty of stores online, if they still have them.

Keep in mind, there is nothing wrong with extra power.
 
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