[DiamondB]

Also, I guess that the presence of a permanent P1000 is an issue in itself and that should be mentioned/investigated by the garage too.

 

[dwightbresemann]

Also, I guess that the presence of a permanent P1000 is an issue in itself and that should be mentioned/investigated by the garage too.

A P1000 is not an issue. This is a normal code to let you know the monitors have not been completed.

 

[dwightbresemann]

Ohh ok so this P0685 error should be pursued, gotchya! So I'll get the plugs and boots and the back-pressure test done regardless and also ask them to load test -specifically- the circuit related to that error too. Reading wiring diagrams and doing the DC load tests might be a little out of my league to do myself but I'll see if I can find a decent video as I'm a complete novice and I need to see someone do exactly what I'm going to be doing. I think I have one of those lightbulbs that attaches to the battery ..I guess those croc clips might be too big. I did give that relay a tap like you said btw, Dwight...I read somewhere else that people would switch out relays to see if the issue followed the relay - wondered whether that might be worth doing.

Considering it's booked in on Friday and I'm workin' all week - I think I'll leave it to Midas - I just need to be super clear with them what I want them to do. I'm liable to miss something and kick myself when I jump back on here! I guess I need to get them to try to reproduce the P0685 and load test that circuit first and foremost. The carfax report that I have for the history of this vehicle makes mention of regular oil and filter changes but nothing about plugs so I guess that says it all. Plugs, boots, tune-up and P0685 load testing/test all grounds?

Humbled by all this support. Onward!

Thanks!
Cam

Good idea to take the vehicle to a repair shop. You have to have the check engine light on, or codes in the modules, for them to figure it out. So, drive the vehicle till it trips some codes and do not clear them. I would not offer them any tips for diagnostics. They know what they are doing. Just state the facts, loss of performance when warm.

I own an 05 Escape hybrid and keep mine in tip-top shape, and I have no power. My fuel mileage stinks. This is normal. It is what it is. It's ok to drive, but no performance like a regular vehicle.

 

[DiamondB]

Willdo, thanks! I'm doing an airport run right before I take it in so that will probably do it. I've been thinking of going to a dealership that's selling the same model and taking that for a test drive (if I don't get anywhere). I'm pretty sure it needs new plugs/tuning anyway so I don't think this move is a waste. Much appreciated. I feel like asking them explicitly to do back-pressure tests isn't too cheeky...maybe it is. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[dwightbresemann]

You can never go wrong with a tuneup. Consider doing the valve cover gasket while doing the tuneup. It's less expensive during the tuneup, than having to do it later. Don't forget to check or change the rear HV battery air filter. With today's gas prices, we want our vehicles running lean and mean.

Besides the engine oil, I change all fluids every 45,000 miles.

Every third tank full of fuel, I add a bottle of Techron fuel injection cleaner to the tank. This stuff works and is worth the price.

Have you tried running the key on, engine off (KOEO) and the key on, engine running (KOER) self-tests yet? Does your ISO support this test? This on demand self test is informative, and used during diagnostics.

Does your smartphone software allow you to run the HV battery Re-Balance of the cells?

 

[DiamondB]

Great stuff, thank you - I changed the HV battery air filter when I got it a few months ago and it was rather mucky. I've noted down the valve cover gasket too. It's pretty solid at around 30mpg so I've been rather impressed with the fuel economy. My wife drives it super Gordon Lightfoot with it and manages to get insane economy around town - like 35-39 mpg! I'll get a bunch of Techron too ..I do fill-up at Chevron which has Techron in it already but probably not enough in the regular stuff.

I'll look into that KOEO KOER thing on the apps that I have but, honestly? I think my apaptor is super basic and I wish I would have just bought the one from the FORscan site you sent me right out of the gate - having said that, it tucks away nicely. I'll buy the proper one that works with FORscan in Windows too as that will come in handy - the other one can be used for reading codes if I'm out yonder.

I highly doubt that I'd be able to do the Cell Re-Balance with the cheapo adaptor/free software I have but I bet the FORscan software and the proper recommended USB adaptor would let me do that, right? That sounds super worthwhile!

Indebted,
Cam

 

[DiamondB]

Hi!

Good news and bad news on this one - it's been a very interesting journey and I hope that this thread is of use to newer '08 era FEH owners like myself. I just got a call from someone at the garage....the person I talked to went over all the tests that he had done - closely matching all of the tests that Dwight had suggested.

The good news? No fault has been found and they are certain that the truck is driving normally and within normal parameters - they tested the 12v battery too as I have read that a bad batt can cause strange issues. They saw no need to replace the plugs and everything is checking out fine. The mechanic I talked to has a lot of experience with driving this exact model as his brother has owned two of them, he is sure that it is normal and confirmed that they are just different to drive and do seem to struggle on hills but this is typical of this truck. All of the "symptoms" are apparently normal quirks.

The bad news is that I seem to have been on a bit of a wild goose chase and I have inadvertently sent members of this forum on one too (especially Dwight!). If that P0685 code returns, I will take it back and enquire about it.

I'll report back on this thread if there are any developments, I'm yet to take it on a long long road trip. This is bittersweet for me as I did want to get a little more oomph out of this thing and it looks like I'll have to get used to it. I'm going to keep it though - even considering this foible, it's still a beautiful SUV and the fuel economy is awesome. I'm gonna utilize that Audiophile stereo system a little more to counter the revving and accept the lesser performance as a fuel economy feature - rather than a bug.

Thanks again, sincerely, for all of your help.
Cam

 

[dwightbresemann]

Thank you for the update, glad all is well. I did not take it as a wild goose chase. I took it as a learning experience. You learned a little bit more about your vehicle and as a bonus, found a reliable repair facility.

When you mentioned the vehicle was getting around 30mpg, I figured all was well. It's not a performance vehicle, but it gets the job done. I'm very happy with my 05 hybrid and plain to keep it for many more years.

Safe journey and take care. Dwight.

 

[DiamondB]

You're right, I've learned so much. You've been awesome. Escape-city is a great community and, yes! I've found a great auto-repair shop too

 

[DiamondB]

Alright. I can't quite believe that I'm typing this but I'm just going to go ahead and blurt out what just happened. As I was going to saving a few $$$ not having to replace plugs etc I asked the repair-shop to check some other things over and make sure it's tip-top ...there was a lil seepage from the rear diff that was a concern so they checked it out. Here's the kicker!!! Dwight, you're gonna love this I think. They ran it in what they called a "Hot Soak" condition and noticed a misfire on the computer that they hadn't spotted before. I guess it's an intermittent thing. Dwight, I remember you saying change the plugs out anyway if they are older (or something like that..sorry, I'm giddy) They now recommend that the plugs are changed out and believe that that was the root cause of the problem. It's going to cost more but I'm absolutely elated that an issue has been reproduced, diagnosed and is being addressed. This issue was difficult to detect to the point where I was just going to leave the plugs.

The truck will be ready at 3:30pm today and I'm excited to test drive it and report back. I am sooo excited!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! Lesson? (And I'm sure Dwight said this before) - If there's any question about the plugs..SWAP EM OUT!

Wow! Fingers crossed. Will let you know how it is a little later on today,
Cam

 

[DiamondB]

Update: I have the truck back and haven't taken if super far yet but I did get it warm and took it up a steep hill. TBH the difference is not really noticeable (yet?). The mechanic advised that misfires were read in 3 cylinders. I'm coming down from my initial high and realising that this maybe isn't the miracle cure that I was expecting (lil bit of a rollercoaster day!). My last note on this is that maybe the PCM needs some time to adjust to the new plugs and I'll start to feel a lil more of a gain over the next few days? The garage advised that the truck is all good now and nothing more needs to be done on it, which is nice to hear. Juuuust hoping for a little more improvement as I take it out and about over the weekend.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[dwightbresemann]

Nice follow up. Reading between the line of your posts, I deduced you purchased the vehicle a few months ago and was concerned about the lack of power, hence the post.

I own a repair facility. My customer's purchase new (used) vehicles from time to time and ask us to check them out. We perform the normal inspections and make recommendations. I always recommend starting out with a clean slate. Full tuneup, all filters and fluids changed. From now on, my shop can keep you current on the required maintenance requirements.

For all Fords, the easiest way to check misfires is with a scanner capable of reading mode 6, PID 53. This PID is in real time, moment by moment, of any misfires.

Misfires are bad. Depending on how bad, poor fuel mileage, loss of power, over stressing the catalytic convertor from overheating trying to process the un-burnt fuel. Misfires also stress the coils and the PCM drivers for the coils (internal grounds).

You found a good facility. At first, they didn't find a problem, and then they had the guts to call you and say to say, "yes, we did indeed find an issue". Good deal!

To clear out the PCM memory (stored learned values), use a scanner and run the "keep alive memory clear" function, or disconnect the 12v battery for 15 mins.

I posted mode 6 display in PID 53. This is raw hex code, direct from the PCM. This information is derived from the crankshaft position sensor in real time.

Good chatting with you, you have some questions, please post them.

PS, add Techron fuel injection cleaner while refueling, it does work.

Cheers!

 

[DiamondB]

Well! It's me again. I thought I'd revive this one considering what just went down and that there has been a whole bunch of troubleshooting on here. It's been hot this weekend and today. I hadn't driven the FEH in this heat yet (30 degrees celcius) it's been so nice out that we've been walking everywhere. Well, she fired up no problem (ignition wise) but instantly I noticed the loss of power to be the absolute worst I've known it to be - just sluggish as hell. The A/C in the cabin is working - not the coldest but it's working and gives some relief. There is a chirping noise all of a sudden coming from the back somewhere - I assume this chirping (which happens when the truck is stationary also) is the rear A/C kicking in to cool the rear battery. I didn't take it far and performance picked up a little when (presumably) it cooled down a little.

This thing can run ..it gives me occasional little glimpses of what it can do from cold (when it's also cool out) but, generally the performance and feel is kinda rubbish. I don't want to let this truck go but it's going to become a money-pit if I don't watch out. Still no CEL - I don't have a Forscan scanner (because, at this rate I might not even have a Ford soon!) but I'm told by the techs at MIDAS that it's good to go and there shouldn't be any issues with it. I'm even more convinced than ever that this is not transmission related.

What would be the go-to thing to try next? I'm confused about the high voltage battery when the car is hot - like, if it's super hot out, surely it would need time to cool anyway before taking off? I guess that the HV battery just isn't used when it's super hot - until it's cooled by the rear A/C at least.

The 12v battery is reading 12.4 volts with the car off (but terminals connected) the garage tested that battery and didn't find fault with it but I've also read that a weakening 12v battery can cause all sorts of weirdness. I want to avoid spending money on things that don't need to be done if possible but that is a suspect, I guess.

Anyway - the big takeaway is that this performance issue (the same feeling of sluggish limpness/power loss) definitely worsens in the hot weather and this summer is gonna suck if I don't have my truck

Thanks in advance for tips. I'm going out to follow a quick video on testing the MECS pump but, again, no CEL and no codes beyond the perpetual P1000. Another thing is that I have an emissions test section on the OBD app that I'm using and that reports "Evaporative System - Not Passed" and "EGR system - Not Passed" everything else comes up green.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[DiamondB]

Quick update: I ordered a "FORScans OBD2 Adapter" (Forscan Compatible USB Adaptor today) I'm starting to suspect one of the fans in the back. Will report back with findings. Also the MECS pump appears to be functioning - pretty sure that would have thrown a code or CEL anyway. Thx

 

[GatorJ]

Cam: The answer to your problem is right here.:

"This thing can run ..it gives me occasional little glimpses of what it can do from cold (when it's also cool out) but, generally the performance and feel is kinda rubbish.

You need to have your AC system working perfectly, Both fans in the HVTB need to operational and check on the condition of your HVTB air filter.

 

[DiamondB]

Thank you! Yes, whole-heartedly agreed and hoped. I've been spending my spare time doing some more tests on the battery (which checks out ok even though it's older). I found the source of the chirping sound when the A/C comes on (A/C clutch I think). I've used Forscan to test the rear fans and thankfully they are both working! No rear actuator door faults and the filter is new. I took the cover off so I can see the air vents and it's clean in there too.

It's gotta be the A/C as you say and that is my next move. It weirds me out that it's not throwing codes related to heat degrading performance. I mean, if the battery isn't cool enough and performance will be degraded (noticably) until it gets to the optimal temperature - throw me a CEL or something maybe eh? That seems to be a bit of a design oversight, to me. Everything does seem to point to the A/C though. One of the pipes at the back is cold but not freezing cold when it's running and the meat thermometer that I have in the vent isn't getting much lower than 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The A/C is working - but not well enough, it seems!

Thanks again. Will report back - should be getting the A/C sorted on Friday.

 

[Mountain Escape]

Thank you! Yes, whole-heartedly agreed and hoped. I've been spending my spare time doing some more tests on the battery (which checks out ok even though it's older). I found the source of the chirping sound when the A/C comes on (A/C clutch I think). I've used Forscan to test the rear fans and thankfully they are both working! No rear actuator door faults and the filter is new. I took the cover off so I can see the air vents and it's clean in there too.

It's gotta be the A/C as you say and that is my next move. It weirds me out that it's not throwing codes related to heat degrading performance. I mean, if the battery isn't cool enough and performance will be degraded (noticably) until it gets to the optimal temperature - throw me a CEL or something maybe eh? That seems to be a bit of a design oversight, to me. Everything does seem to point to the A/C though. One of the pipes at the back is cold but not freezing cold when it's running and the meat thermometer that I have in the vent isn't getting much lower than 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The A/C is working - but not well enough, it seems!

Thanks again. Will report back - should be getting the A/C sorted on Friday.

You know, just offhand… It almost sounds like your catalytic converter is plugged up. runs good cold, but when it heats up it becomes sluggish…

They are not cheap to replace, so I would not recommend just throwing a new one at it. I have never seen a test that shows exhaust flow levels… manifold back pressure tester?
But may be your local muffler shop could do something like that?

The only thing I know to test it is to cut it out of your exhaust pipe(leaving enough exposed pipe to re-weld it back in), and sleeve in a piece of straight pipe for a test drive.

 

[DiamondB]

You know, just offhand… It almost sounds like your catalytic converter is plugged up. runs good cold, but when it heats up it becomes sluggish…

They are not cheap to replace, so I would not recommend just throwing a new one at it. I have never seen a test that shows exhaust flow levels… manifold back pressure tester?
But may be your local muffler shop could do something like that?

The only thing I know to test it is to cut it out of your exhaust pipe(leaving enough exposed pipe to re-weld it back in), and sleeve in a piece of straight pipe for a test drive.

Thanks for reading all this and thanks for your feedback.. so much has happened that I may have neglected to update that part! I went to a muffler place and they performed such a test...they disconnected the cat and O2 sensor to test it (it ran really noisily while that test was done, of course) They let me drive it too and I didn't feel any difference. They were a little baffled and, not being familiar with the FEHs, suggested that it's normal as it's "just a 4-banger". I'm not expecting anything fantastic, performance-wise and the fuel economy is outstanding. It really is sluggish though and often a real struggle to drive. Seems inhibited by something. In the back of my mind I'm wondering whether this A/C thing is going to be the solution or not but I've had mini-breakthroughs before and ended up being disappointed so I'm kinda used to it.

I don't know much (well, anything really!) about the catalytic converter system on this truck but aren't there a few cats? Is there a chance that they just didn't know that and that there was another one that should have been disconnected for the test?

One more thing I'll add here is that I'll be replacing the front driver side vent-selector actuator this week as that has been clicking since I got this vehicle. I don't think that has any bearing on this case as I understand the cooling system for the batt is separate from the cabin system. Just in the interest of full-disclosure.

If anyone wants me to grab some specific Forscan data from the truck - I can do that also.

An appreciative,
Cam

 

[DiamondB]

Thanks for reading all this and thanks for your feedback.. so much has happened that I may have neglected to update that part! I went to a muffler place and they performed such a test...they disconnected the cat and O2 sensor to test it (it ran really noisily while that test was done, of course) They let me drive it too and I didn't feel any difference. They were a little baffled and, not being familiar with the FEHs, suggested that it's normal as it's "just a 4-banger". I'm not expecting anything fantastic, performance-wise and the fuel economy is outstanding. It really is sluggish though and often a real struggle to drive. Seems inhibited by something. In the back of my mind I'm wondering whether this A/C thing is going to be the solution or not but I've had mini-breakthroughs before and ended up being disappointed so I'm kinda used to it.

I don't know much (well, anything really!) about the catalytic converter system on this truck but aren't there a few cats? Is there a chance that they just didn't know that and that there was another one that should have been disconnected for the test?

One more thing I'll add here is that I'll be replacing the front driver side vent-selector actuator this week as that has been clicking since I got this vehicle. I don't think that has any bearing on this case as I understand the cooling system for the batt is separate from the cabin system. Just in the interest of full-disclosure.

If anyone wants me to grab some specific Forscan data from the truck - I can do that also.

An appreciative,
Cam

PS - I do feel the exhaust fumes coming from the tail pipe if I put my hand over it ..I gather that if the cat was clogged, I wouldn't be feeling much, if anything. I've put some of that cat cleaner through the fuel system too.

 

[Mountain Escape]

PS - I do feel the exhaust fumes coming from the tail pipe if I put my hand over it ..I gather that if the cat was clogged, I wouldn't be feeling much, if anything. I've put some of that cat cleaner through the fuel system too.

Just trying to cover all the bases ( :
that there could be a difference between hot, and cold operating temperature performance is( to me) a direct key to your solution.

I don't know if you have tested all of your exhaust-intake sensors for resistance/operability
With such varients between operating temperatures, and your performance… I'm going to suspect it's on the exhaust side.