[Kolpax]

Hello, I have a 2012 Escape 2.5L with 196,000 miles that keeps stalling on start up. Once it is going it seems fine but initially getting it going can take a bit. It has had a new fuel pump, fuel pump relay, MAF sensor, EGR Valve, charcoal canister. I plan on changing out the Canister Purge Valve next. The main problem with this is there are no engine codes so it has made trying to figure it out a challenge. I know the engine is getting up there in miles so changing out all these things isn't that big of a issue, I was just wanting to know if anyone had any ideas of what else I could try to solve this specific issue as I continue doing general maintenance on the engine. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mountain Escape]

Hello, I have a 2012 Escape 2.5L with 196,000 miles that keeps stalling on start up. Once it is going it seems fine but initially getting it going can take a bit. It has had a new fuel pump, fuel pump relay, MAF sensor, EGR Valve, charcoal canister. I plan on changing out the Canister Purge Valve next. The main problem with this is there are no engine codes so it has made trying to figure it out a challenge. I know the engine is getting up there in miles so changing out all these things isn't that big of a issue, I was just wanting to know if anyone had any ideas of what else I could try to solve this specific issue as I continue doing general maintenance on the engine. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome, Kolpax!
Bench test your 12 V battery under load, all signs point to this. I bet it comes in under 11.5 working voltage

 

[paul_faraianu]

I had the same problem also. Took it to have it tested and it came in at 11.1
I only drive 20 minutes to work, so I’m suspecting that it’s not enough time for the battery to charge.
Replaced the battery and problem solved

 

[tomw]

If the battery checks out, you may want to look at the temperature sensors. Coolant temp is used to modify cold idle settings, rpm and mixture, to help a cold engine run without stalling. Air temperature is also considered. If the throttle body is dirty, it can also make idle a bit unstable. The MAF(and MAP if present) are also used to tell the computer how much air is incoming so the mixture can be adjusted properly. The MAP senses manifold vacuum, to indicate roughly the load on the engine, and again, helps mixture setting. If you have a good OBD-II tool, you can check and monitor most of these sensor inputs for rational information. E.g., if the temp sensor indicates 190F coolant... and the engine was just started after an overnight cool down... it may be lying.
tom

 

[Kolpax]

Thanks for the replies, but the issue is still occurring. We have a new battery in it but I had it tested and it all checks out. I took out the throttle body and cleaned it. As far as the cooling system, It has a new thermostat, water pump, and radiator all replaced 2 months ago. Since my initial post I’ve also replaced canister purge valve along with plugs and wires. Talked to a few people at Ford and they seemed stumped as well considering everything I’ve replaced. they said they could diagnose it but would need it for 2 weeks. I just don’t know what else to try.

 

[Mountain Escape]

I am sure you are aware of this, but a car only needs three things to run. Fuel, air, spark
The only thing I haven't heard you mention is the air filter at this point… I think you would've got that

But you're going to have to start with your fuel injectors, and make sure they are putting out the correct, and consistent pressure

you will need to go to your coil packs individually, and make sure they are all putting out proper, and consistent voltage.

this is what a shop will have to do if you pay them, I don't know if you have the means to be able to test your fuel injector pressure…

that it is hard to start, and then runs fine after starting would lead me to believe it is sensor/regulator related somewhere.

I have seen brand-new parts installed that have failed… Don't overlook anything. I don't know any backyard mechanic that has an exhaust gas analyzer… (last one I heard of being purchased was over 25 years ago, and was over 100 grand back then )
That will often point you to exactly what the problem is, or at least in what system.
If you live in a rural area like I do, just go into the city… Emissions testing stations are everywhere.

 

[Kolpax]

I am sure you are aware of this, but a car only needs three things to run. Fuel, air, spark
The only thing I haven't heard you mention is the air filter at this point… I think you would've got that

But you're going to have to start with your fuel injectors, and make sure they are putting out the correct, and consistent pressure

you will need to go to your coil packs individually, and make sure they are all putting out proper, and consistent voltage.

this is what a shop will have to do if you pay them, I don't know if you have the means to be able to test your fuel injector pressure…

that it is hard to start, and then runs fine after starting would lead me to believe it is sensor/regulator related somewhere.

I have seen brand-new parts installed that have failed… Don't overlook anything. I don't know any backyard mechanic that has an exhaust gas analyzer… (last one I heard of being purchased was over 25 years ago, and was over 100 grand back then )
That will often point you to exactly what the problem is, or at least in what system.
If you live in a rural area like I do, just go into the city… Emissions testing stations are everywhere.

Yeah, I threw a new air filter at it as well when I changed out the MAF sensor. I personally felt that if it was something like fuel injectors or the coil packs it would be a constant issue, but once it get past that initial cold start stall it is good to go. It'll accelerate just fine, no loss of power, no stalling while driving, no rough idle or any of the common symptoms associated with that. I hadn't noticed any reduction in fuel mileage either. My wife took it to a shop for emissions testing so we could do the yearly registration and it passed just fine with no problems. Honestly, I had never seen anything like this. I believe I have replaced every relay with the exception of the fuel tank pressure sensor that sits on top of the fuel tank. Everything I replaced does have a lifetime warranty so I may just start going back through and swapping them out to see if I did happen to get bad part. Otherwise I'll have to take it to a shop I suppose and have them run down and test the various parts I don't have the tools for. Overall the stalling thing isn't that big of a deal since it only does it on that initial start up and is good from there it is just kind of annoying not knowing what is causing it. Thanks again though for the recommendations, I'll let you guys know if something changes or I figure it out.

 

[Mountain Escape]

Yeah, I threw a new air filter at it as well when I changed out the MAF sensor. I personally felt that if it was something like fuel injectors or the coil packs it would be a constant issue, but once it get past that initial cold start stall it is good to go. It'll accelerate just fine, no loss of power, no stalling while driving, no rough idle or any of the common symptoms associated with that. I hadn't noticed any reduction in fuel mileage either. My wife took it to a shop for emissions testing so we could do the yearly registration and it passed just fine with no problems. Honestly, I had never seen anything like this. I believe I have replaced every relay with the exception of the fuel tank pressure sensor that sits on top of the fuel tank. Everything I replaced does have a lifetime warranty so I may just start going back through and swapping them out to see if I did happen to get bad part. Otherwise I'll have to take it to a shop I suppose and have them run down and test the various parts I don't have the tools for. Overall the stalling thing isn't that big of a deal since it only does it on that initial start up and is good from there it is just kind of annoying not knowing what is causing it. Thanks again though for the recommendations, I'll let you guys know if something changes or I figure it out.

I'm going to suggest that you focus on the starting/ignition system(spark).
Maybe start with your engine block, and body ground points.

you know, I wonder if it's just in your ignition switch in the column
Do you have just one key/fob when it's in the ignition switch, or do you have a whole keyring

Have you tried exerting force in a north-south/East-west direction while turning, or wiggling the ignition key to see if it makes any difference?

 

[Kolpax]

I'm going to suggest that you focus on the starting/ignition system(spark).
Maybe start with your engine block, and body ground points.

you know, I wonder if it's just in your ignition switch in the column
Do you have just one key/fob when it's in the ignition switch, or do you have a whole keyring

Have you tried exerting force in a north-south/East-west direction while turning, or wiggling the ignition key to see if it makes any difference?

She has the Key/FOB combo. I hadn't messed with wiggling or forcing it while starting. I've always just tried to turn it like normal. I'll ask her about it and see if she has had issues with it before the stalling issue popped up because if I recall I think she has said she had a issue one or two times at work where she turned the key but it did nothing. I haven't had it happen to me personally though.

 

[Mountain Escape]

She has the Key/FOB combo. I hadn't messed with wiggling or forcing it while starting. I've always just tried to turn it like normal. I'll ask her about it and see if she has had issues with it before the stalling issue popped up because if I recall I think she has said she had a issue one or two times at work where she turned the key but it did nothing. I haven't had it happen to me personally though.

I know a lot of people keep pounds of keys on a ring… (so they don't lose them)
Generally not suggested.

Even if she doesn't have a giant keyring, I think that you might be whittling it down to a point. I am definitely going to suggest ignition cylinder replacement next

you will have to reprogram keys and shtuff, so I would recommend sourcing it out.

not only calling a shop for estimates, but call a local locksmith maybe too

 

[tomw]

Has anyone looked into the throttle body? I have a Ranger that stalled and bucked, a manual transmission model, that was almost undriveable until it had warmed up a bit. Every cold start was another challenge to see if I could get it moving before it stalled several times. The apparent 'cure' was to douse the inside of the intake manifold with carb cleaner and to clean near the throttle plate using spray and a shop rag. I let the cleaner sit in the manifold for a while before trying to start the engine. It did smoke for a bit upon startup, but was a lot better. The second thing I also noted was that there was a vacuum line that was not fixed tightly to the nipple on the intake manifold. Putting that back in place tightly also helped.
I would suggest looking for a possible vacuum leak, broken vacuum line, loose fitting or cracked plastic. A smoke machine is nice to have for this type inspection. You can make one using some plumbing fittings, a wick for a kerosene barbecue lamp, and some wire. Baby oil works to produce smoke... on YT. If you don't want to do that, a Mityvac(sp) should be able to produce enough vacuum to check for leaks using sound with the engine off. Maybe.
tom

 

[Kolpax]

The throttle body was seemingly good. I had already taken it off, cleaned it out, and replaced the gaskets. I think the problem lies within the ignition as @Mountain Escape had mentioned. I had started pushing the key into the ignition harder before turning it on and this has drastically reduced how often that stalling issue occurs now. I think this would also make sense on why I wouldn't get a code because everything technically is working fine and I'm guessing the lack of a good connection is cutting something off somewhere within the starting system and why once it gets started it runs fine from there.