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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
what does everyone think of the program? a positive use of our money or what it just another scheme? i think that a lot of people purchased cars without factoring in the maintenance costs and the insurance costs, and all these people are going to be in for a rude awakening when the bills from insurance, the payment, and other misc. things add up. could it be that people will be losing their cars just like people lost their homes? i want to hear what people think
 

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As long as this doesn't become political, IMHO it was a good idea.

Most new cars don't require the kind of maintenance that's going to bankrupt anyone, and the auto insurance market is still competitive enough to provide people with lower insurance than they may be paying already.

Just my .02.
 

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I agree, JP, that this was a good deal, across the board. I don't believe that folks over extended themselves at all. I believe that those folks who were on the fence where encouraged to make the step. I also know, for a fact, that it brought back jobs. I grew up in the Detroit area, and have friends and relatives that have been called back to work. Examples: Great Lakes SteelWorks (a division of US Steel) had completely shut down operations. They are now bringing blast furnaces back online. These furnaces deal with specific steel types for the auto industry. My Bro-in-law was laid off from there last January and was not expecting to be recalled until after the new year, if at all. He was called back and is working 7/12 shifts to bring the furnaces back up. This is not something they would undertake unless there was belief that it would stay. Cost are approx $1M and about a month of work to just get it all restarted. My nephew works for Kastle Steel, which, among other things does subcontract stamping for Ford (specifically, they stamp the F-150 tailgate). He was called back 3 weeks after Great Lakes started operations. As these salaries start flowing, the trickle down into the Detroit economy will start.

These are just a few (comparitively) of the effects, and hopefully, are just the beginning of the turnaround.
 

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i think that a lot of people purchased cars without factoring in the maintenance costs and the insurance costs, and all these people are going to be in for a rude awakening when the bills add up.
Is there something that makes you think the maintenance and insurance costs of a new car would be more than the costs of maintaining and insuring an older car?
 

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what does everyone think of the program? a positive use of our money or what it just another scheme?
Lets see. Banks get a bailout. What do they do with the $388 billion allocated to them? They hold it, so that they can show on their books that they have the cash to cover their portfolios of toxic assets. How does this benefit the economy?

So the government spends less than $2.8 billion for a program to help people with older vehicles, that don't get very good gas mileage, replace them with more fuel efficient models.

So I trade in my old 1993 S-10 Blazer that gets 18 mpg for a new Escape that gets 21 mpg. I get $3500 for my Blazer in this trade that I would not have made if this program did not come along.

So what does the government get for its $3500 investment? Right off the bat I paid $1,347.44 in State sales taxes. I paid an additional $110.30 in other State "fees" (I paid at least 10 State fees). So the government's share is reduced from $3500 to $2042.26.

Now watch that $2 grand trickle "up" through the economy.
  • * Car dealers sell cars, which lets the auto industry continue to employ people (directly and indirectly).
    * Car dealers advertise, providing money to the industry that is, unknowingly, the hardest hit by the recent economic downturn.
    * News media runs story after story about C4C spurring additional attention and likely increasing sales.
    * Specialty Equipment Market is provided with an influx of new vehicle owners to sell automotive accessories to. (just look at the number of folks on this forum raiding eBay of parts to lower and raise and otherwise customize their Escapes)

There are lots of critics of C4C out there. I'm sure that most of them did not own a clunker that would qualify for the program and they are just pissed off at the World in general.
 

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Dang, I just thought of another benefit.

I'm in the battery business and I sell all kinds of batteries, including used automotive batteries.

So now there are a couple hundred thousand cars that are going to be scrapped with perfectly good used batteries on them. The scrap dealer will get about $10 for each battery. A middle man will sell them to me for about $20. I'll sell them to the public for about $30. On top of that, my State's "Commission on Environmental Quality" will charge a fee of $3 on each of those batteries that I sell.

Geez, do the math. That could be millions of dollars entering the economy through the battery industry. See that money trickling up? I'm still waiting for some of that bank bailout money to trickle down.
 

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I think in many cases your right. I looked at the program and the $4,500.00 still wasn't enough for me to want to take on car payments, added insurance, and title and license fees. My 97 windstar with 147,856 miles is still a good ride. :shades:
 

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I was one of the buyers sitting on the fence my daily driver 96 Taurus SHO needed Struts and front end work which was going to cost me a couple thousand dollars. I normally purchase my cars used but with the CARS rebate and the Ford rebate and special financing the deal I could make was better than purchasing used. $4500 for a $1500 dollar car, 1500 rebate on the escape, 0% financing for three years(leave my money in a CD) plus 7-8 more mpg better than my old car.
 

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ive thought about buying a car just for the purpose f using it as a C4C purchase, is there anything in ontario for this? cause if i could get 4500 for a junker and then the 6000 i want for trade in on my escape.... new F150 here i come! hahahaha
 

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ive thought about buying a car just for the purpose f using it as a C4C purchase
If Canada comes out with a program like that, then purchasing a junker for the purpose of trading it in probably will not work. In the United States, you had to own the clunker vehicle for at least 1 year. It had to be continuously registered, insured and running during that time.
 

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KC5ZRU how long you been a Ham? I've been an Amature since 2004 and am a General class. :shades: KE7BIN
 

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KC5ZRU how long you been a Ham?
Twelve or thirteen years.

This is a pic of my Escape with my old license plate. I ordered my
new plates yesterday and should arrive before the end of the month.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
KC5ZRQ said:
i think that a lot of people purchased cars without factoring in the maintenance costs and the insurance costs, and all these people are going to be in for a rude awakening when the bills add up.
Is there something that makes you think the maintenance and insurance costs of a new car would be more than the costs of maintaining and insuring an older car?
i used to have a 99 civic si, and here where i am from these cars get stolen left and right. the insurance premium off course was pretty high. the civic was costing me 120 a month with full coverage, the escape i have now is 140 with full coverage. if i had a 09 vehicle i'm pretty sure my rate would be about 200 a month. as for maintenance costs, my civic only needed the routine maintenance. new cars are mandatory take backs to the dealership to protect their warranty if you got one, if you didn't a visit to the dealership can cost an arm and a leg. seriously. if you add some maintenance costs and the insurance premium hike, that is quite a bit for people that are barely making it. that's why i think these two things could affect someones pocket size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
GreatEscape2004 said:
I agree, JP, that this was a good deal, across the board. I don't believe that folks over extended themselves at all. I believe that those folks who were on the fence where encouraged to make the step. I also know, for a fact, that it brought back jobs. I grew up in the Detroit area, and have friends and relatives that have been called back to work. Examples: Great Lakes SteelWorks (a division of US Steel) had completely shut down operations. They are now bringing blast furnaces back online. These furnaces deal with specific steel types for the auto industry. My Bro-in-law was laid off from there last January and was not expecting to be recalled until after the new year, if at all. He was called back and is working 7/12 shifts to bring the furnaces back up. This is not something they would undertake unless there was belief that it would stay. Cost are approx $1M and about a month of work to just get it all restarted. My nephew works for Kastle Steel, which, among other things does subcontract stamping for Ford (specifically, they stamp the F-150 tailgate). He was called back 3 weeks after Great Lakes started operations. As these salaries start flowing, the trickle down into the Detroit economy will start.

These are just a few (comparitively) of the effects, and hopefully, are just the beginning of the turnaround.
i am glad to hear that there is actually a visible difference taking place in some of the states. that would mean that the mission of stimulating the economy is being somewhat completed. i hope that there are more programs like this that the government sponsors. the programs don't need to be in the vehicle production sector, but if the government targets something that is a necessity for consumers, it is bound to get people spending and our economy moving up like it should be.
 

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fbdws said:
KC5ZRQ said:
i think that a lot of people purchased cars without factoring in the maintenance costs and the insurance costs, and all these people are going to be in for a rude awakening when the bills add up.
Is there something that makes you think the maintenance and insurance costs of a new car would be more than the costs of maintaining and insuring an older car?
i used to have a 99 civic si, and here where i am from these cars get stolen left and right. the insurance premium off course was pretty high. the civic was costing me 120 a month with full coverage, the escape i have now is 140 with full coverage. if i had a 09 vehicle i'm pretty sure my rate would be about 200 a month. as for maintenance costs, my civic only needed the routine maintenance. new cars are mandatory take backs to the dealership to protect their warranty if you got one, if you didn't a visit to the dealership can cost an arm and a leg. seriously. if you add some maintenance costs and the insurance premium hike, that is quite a bit for people that are barely making it. that's why i think these two things could affect someones pocket size.
The insurance on my 09 Escape is cheaper than full coverage I paid on my 96 SHO and a lot cheaper than the insurance on my XJ8, I also think your assumption that people purchase cars without factoring maintenance and insurance cost is also incorrect we are not talking about first time buyers.
 

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There is no need to use the dealership for maintenance to keep your warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
KC5ZRQ said:
The insurance on my 09 Escape is cheaper than full coverage I paid on my 96 SHO and a lot cheaper than the insurance on my XJ8, I also think your assumption that people purchase cars without factoring maintenance and insurance cost is also incorrect we are not talking about first time buyers.
i was giving an example based on my situation. your payment can be lowered if you move to a different area and if you get older and all that junk. here in my area most people were not first time vehicle buyers, but they were first time brand new vehicle buyers. i am seeing them scratch their head when their insurance and car payment bill is opened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Squishy said:
There is no need to use the dealership for maintenance to keep your warranty.
sorry i was unaware of that. they feed us that b.s. at the dealerships here. maybe its just the dang salespeople trying to get continued business.
 

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It is, same with that "you must follow our 3000 mile oil change schedule instead of what the manual says or we will void your warranty" line. Service is a huge part of a dealership's profit, bigger than car sales in most cases.
 

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This program disgusts me because they are destroying in 75% or more in cases perfectly good vehicles that a lot of people would be happy to have cause they were so much better than what they have. The people out there that have old crappy running cars only have then because they couldn't afford anything nicer and cant afford to go out and buy a new economical vehicle. You know, like low income families that are low income for legit reason, not the millions out there that take advantage of the low income term. The only people who really took advantage of it were middle and upper class people that could afford to that are trading in vehicles that are not all that bad on mileage. The lower class people who could really use a newer (not new) vehicle and can't afford it get nothing out of this. These people are driving around in 70s and 80s era cars in poor condition not because they want to. These are the people that should have been targeted by the program. They would be more than happy to get a blazer, explorer, caprice, crown vic, etc from the 90s that get 16-18 mpg because their 1976 Olds only gets 8-10 mpg because its' got 175k miles on a 350-400 CID v8 in a 5k+ pound car.

And it just makes me sick to see all these perfectly good vehicles wasted. I work at a dealership and witnessed the destruction first hand, I hate to admit but I was even part of it. Didn't want to be but as part of my job I had to do it. There have been countless explorers destroyed, some even under 100k miles in great condition, along with minivans, and even a few nice cars. We have even destroyed several F150/250/350s and yesterday we blew up a 90 Ranger that was very customized, lifted, lots of bolt on accessories, and even had a 302 V8 swapped into it. I would have loved to bring that home. :(

Plus this program created a fast and large amount of sales in a short time. pretty much pulled every one in who already planned to buy with in the next year to do it now. So where are the next years sales going to come from? Few dealers are selling any cars in our area now. So now the manufactures are going to have to come up with some other type of scam to produce more sales over the next year to make up for the sales they already got ahead of time.

In general, the program had potential to be a good thought, but was executed now where near the way it should have been.

My truck qualified for this program, and I only average 8-10 mpg out of it. Now I'd never give up my truck though. Especially to something like this where it would be destroyed for no good reason.
 
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