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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
looking to get some component speakers, some of the different sets ive been looking into include:

INFINITY 6820CS - 125 US - 90 RMS
rockford P1682S - 135.00 us - 120 RMS
Kicker DS6802 - 85.00 us - 90 RMS
Lightning Audio b1.68C - 75.00 US - 150 RMS
Audiobahn ABC680V - 110 US - 160 RMS

these are Ebay prices and are my basic price range.

they will be a direct stock replacment and not hooked up to an amp at first. looking to do the fronts first then maybe the backs in components in the near future.

if anyone has experience with any of these models and knows if they will fit depth wise and if the tweeters would be fitable in the sail panels the information would help out alot in my desision. also experiences with quality would be interesting also. they will be run off of a kenwood DNX 5120.

thanks for the info
 

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If those are your only choices, I'd stay clear of the last 2. I'd probably pick the Infinity. I have the Kappas in my ST, and they sound nice. It also depends on the sound you are after.

I wouldn't worry about the rear until all other items are complete. You can stick some drop-in coaxs in the rear, and they'd be fine. Concentrate on front stage.
 

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No. Please no!

I taught on here how to use 6.5" components properly, so do that instead. Also, amplify immediately. You don't want to clip your brand-new speakers. And, of course, deaden.

Before just going on and picking a random brand, answer this for me... Try to provide a number on the sliding scale relative to what you prefer in musical reproduction. This will help me understand what type of speaker will play well to your ear.

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound (meaning, do you prefer your music live and natural, or more pre-recorded and boosted in some areas to accentuate the music?)

For the dollar, whatever that number might be:
Power/volume 1 2 3 4 5 Clarity/Detail

Next, tell me your favorite genres of music to go along with these scales.

Lastly, do you care about rear passengers and their sound? Yes/No

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^Ahh yes -- more great advice from fourthmeal (he's a great asset to us). I didn't look close enough at the part #s to realize they were 6x8s. All I've been buying for my Fords lately have been 6.5"s. I know Crutchfield isn't the cheapest place to purchase from (unless you buy on clearance/sale, but they do give you all adaptors (6.5" to 6x8 opening), wiring harnesses, etc. Plus, you'll have a warranty vs. buying from e-bay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
wow great feedback guys,

okay i dont mind doing the front sperakers and amp at the same time. and i was looking at the 6.5 alpine components for roughly 180 but thats basically the most i would spend on the two fronts.

passengers i dont concentrate on too much. they complain about the dual 12" subs against the back seat. so i dont mind leaving out the back seat for a while.

sound im basically going for isnt competition sound, just a rattle free clear sound. ive been running the stock speakers with dual 12" lanzar subs that i absolutly love they work great. however even with my bass setting as low as posible (around -5) and with my treble and highs way up as high as posible. the stock speakerrs start to distort fairly easily and ruins the sound. as far as sound deadening ive used a foam type material comonly used under household carpets throughout the whole truck (roughly 150ft) in all four doors, in the whole hatch and alot of other tight spots. just didnt get around to doing the roof or floor yet (most likely with real dynamat). the foam completely stoped the horible rattling from the door speakers however they still distort really easily. which is why i want the upgrade. and ive heard tweeters make the biggest difference in highs.

the brands i chose to show you i am not attached to at all they were just the main ones i came across. i dont mind going with a 6.5 and a bracket as long as i know they will fit before i buy it all.

music i listen to is mainly hip hop.

wouldnt want to spend too much on a crazy competiton system, i just want some nice clear sound.

keep in mind i live in canada so canadian shippers are a bonus ;)

i hope i suplied enough info and thanks again for your help.

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound

Volume 1 2 3 4 5 Quality
 

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Ok, I've got the concept of what you like. edited here to include the part where you filled out my form*

THROW OUT THE JUTE CARPET PADDING IMMEDIATELY! Yes I am yelling here. That stuff is open-cell and WILL mildew and mold very quickly. I don't want you dying because of this crap. Throw it away as soon as you can. A closed-cell foam is the solution and it is part of my answer for you.

Next, here's some steps to take - in this thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2902&start=10 I have explained how to properly build up the doors. Follow that closely and ask more questions if needed.

By your judgement, you like in-your-face up front sound with highly detailed and accurate ability. Beware that this will potentially fatigue your ears so you must pick your speakers very carefully. That said, I think you will absolutely love JBL, Pioneer Premier, or Kicker. They are all powerful, and very very detailed. I like using Audiosavings for speakers and such on eBay, I've got 5 buys with them so far and each time it has been a pleasure. So, here's some of their links:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KICKER-RS56-2-5 ... otohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-PREMIER-6-5 ... otohosting

For the JBL's, look around but ideally you'd want the most powerful ones you can afford, I'd say the GTO's are the way to go for sure
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-GTO608C-6-5-2-W ... 1|294%3A50

OK, so next thing is to amplify, right? What I need to know is exactly what you have now. You mentioned you have a pair of Lanzar subs. Run me through all the equipment you have (or have direct access to), including wiring, distro boxes, everything. Lay it out for me.
 

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Now will just changing the front speakers give u netter sound without a amp?

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face 4 FOR ME

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient 4 for me

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued 4 FOR ME

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound 1 for me

Volume 1 2 3 4 5 QualityBreensy 4 for me

I listent to alot of 80"s hair metal, classick rock, will just new 6x8 do anything?
 

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andjayik said:
Now will just changing the front speakers give u netter sound without a amp?

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face 4 FOR ME

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient 4 for me

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued 4 FOR ME

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound 1 for me

Volume 1 2 3 4 5 QualityBreensy 4 for me

I listent to alot of 80"s hair metal, classick rock, will just new 6x8 do anything?
Hey there, I hope I don't mix you and OP up when we're posting. Here goes:

An in-your-face but smooth/ambient speaker is almost a paradox. However, I think I would suggest the Pioneer Premier to you almost exclusively. The tweeter is smooth and gentle on the ears, and the woofer is one of the most up-front and powerful ones I can remember. This would be for the TS-C720PRS components, which run between $210-225 usually. Their cheaper cousin is the TS-D720PRS, which run about 1/2 that price or so. The difference between the two is BIG, so if you have the dough just spend it and you'll get what you deserve. If you don't, the D's are still really, really good. Either way they do exactly what you like in a speaker.

You should run rudimentary deadening in the door (per my post above), even if it is only ~$40 or so worth. Every bit counts.

You need to amplify. Stock head units put out ~12W per channel, and aftermarket head units put out about ~14W, no matter what they say on the unit. Amps can easily push ~50W or more per channel without distortion and that's what you need.

There are good amps out there for as little as $50, and of course they go up from there. Before I suggest an amp, it is important to know what else you have. What wiring, head unit, subs, etc. If you have everything completely stock including the head unit, we'll need to solve the head unit link first.
 

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i don't want to change the stock head unit? Just want something that sounds better then the stock speaker, but i think they sound good. Dont want to pay 200$ thought of somthing in the 150 and below?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
yeah this is definatly open cell foam. for the time being it is kept very dry and i will look into replacing it. the only reason i went with this is because during my dynamat search i was deciding between no name dyna for half price or the real dynamat. and a audio guy told me just goto home depot and find something like it for cheap if your just doing it for the rattling.

is the "ultimate b-quite" dynamat any good?

those kickers look nice and are definatly in my price range.

as for amps

as far as my setup right now goes:

got the kenwood DNX 5120 running a kenwood 800 watt 4 channel amp which runs two 1600 watt lanzar dual voice coil subs. i realize the amp is very underpowered i just havnt taken the time to do a system re-build until now.
amp is bolted under the floor (under the sub)
the amp wiring kit is a basic kit with a common size power wire (not sure what guage)

The sub box i am using i spent 4 hours at my friends audio shop trying out roughly 6 different box's with the lanzar's and this is the one with the best sound i could find. its a massive box i hate how big it is. its got two fist size ports in it.

just bought a distribution block today to add in a second amp.

and as for idea's on second amp i can get my hands on a "pyle" 1000 watt amp but ithink its a crappy no namer.

as for what i plan to do this month:

i plan on removing the crappy cargo area foam board and putting a sheet of plywood down in the cavity to which i will mount a distrubution block along with the sub amp and door speaker amp.
after that im going to cut a peice of plywood the shape and size of factory floor and place it down on top. thehn cut a square out the size of cavity and replace it with plexy glass, so you can see and adjust the amps by unscrewing the plexy sheet, and a fan for ventilation. going to cover that top piece of plywood with suade and finally i want to make a dress-up box to go around the subs so i have a nice cargo area again.
would like a nice clean install for once.

my only concern for the cargo area project is im asuming i should run a heavier guage power wire to the back and into the distribution block, for the original amp and the new door speaker amp. im assuming i wouldnt be able to run both amps off that one power wire. also added a volt guage and it jumps around alot when the subs are on loud so maybe i should add a CAP again to save my alternator? also i have a switched remote wire so i can turn my subs off in my area, im assuming i can splice in the remote wire to connect the second amp so it doesnt turn off the speaker amp?

also my head unit can suport two amps correct? i just need to run a second set of rca cables?

and im still trying to figure out a good design for the sub box, all i got so far is maybe build a wooden box to go around it with slots on the front where the speakers are to let the sound out (like your hidden install) (would still like it all to fit under the cargocover)

BTW: i should probably ask this now, im good with car electrical but never hooked up an amp for the speakers. i just run the rca's to the back and conect it up like the sub amp, only difference being i have to run the speaker wire from amp to behind headunit and cut it into the aftermarket harness speaker wires?

thanks so much for the help
 

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You asked a ton of questions, so what I'm going to do is put my answers in Bold In your quote.

Breensy said:
yeah this is definatly open cell foam. for the time being it is kept very dry and i will look into replacing it. the only reason i went with this is because during my dynamat search i was deciding between no name dyna for half price or the real dynamat. and a audio guy told me just goto home depot and find something like it for cheap if your just doing it for the rattling.

Jute doesn't stop resonance, it only stops a certain amount of noise and rattling. It belongs under your carpet in dry conditions only.

is the "ultimate b-quite" dynamat any good?
No. B-Quiet is asphalt-based, which will perform much worse than a Butyl product. What I would suggest is Secondskin, a modest amount of material. You do not need to cover every square inch. Just abide by my directions and/or research this website http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com for guidance. After your mat is down, install a closed-cell foam like Overkill or Ensolite (available at http://www.raamaudio.com) for your CCF layer. This should be sufficient for your doors.

those kickers look nice and are definatly in my price range.
Great deal. Just get the best ones you can afford at the time. Ebay is your friend as long as you trust the vendor. Feedback is a great way to verify.

as for amps

as far as my setup right now goes:

got the kenwood DNX 5120 running a kenwood 800 watt amp which runs two 1600 watt lanzar subs. i realize the amp is very underpowered i just havnt taken the time to do a system re-build until now.

Sounds like you want to replace your current amp and provide power for your speakers as well. Keep in mind that a Kenwood "800 watt" amp is probably 1/2 that in normal music conditions. There is a huge, huge difference between 800W RMS and 800W peak. Check for specs that say they are CEA-2006 certified and/or a birthsheet with real numbers if possible. Or look in the spec book and look for what RMS is.
amp is bolted under the floor (under the sub)
the amp wiring kit is a basic kit with a common size power wire (not sure what guage) Does 8 or 4 sound more familiar? 8 gauge is relatively thin, and powers ~400W, 4 gauge can do up to around 1000W or so.

The sub box i am using i spent 4 hours at my friends audio shop trying out roughly 6 different box's with the lanzar's and this is the one with the best sound i could find. its a massive box i hate how big it is. its got two fist size ports in it.
This is no good. You have a ported box...with no idea to what it is tuned at. This is a big no-no. Every sub needs a different box size and port tune in a ported box. The tune depends on the sub's specs and the box's size, and the correlation between these. If you are going with a ported box, you must be twice as precise as you would be with a sealed box. Everything must be really accurate and well planned, or you'll have a wicked peak in your bass response which will destroy the semblance of a clean strong frequency response. Basically if you look at in a way...you end up with a one-note wonder. If you give me the Lanzar's exact part numbers, I will model and graph the correct response plots you should have w/ those subs.

just bought a distribution block today to add in a second amp.
Details. What kind, part numbers, pics, etc. I can help determine what exactly it can do for you.

and as for idea's on second amp i can get my hands on a "pyle" 1000 watt amp but ithink its a crappy no namer.
Good call on not buying a paperweight.

as for what i plan to do this month:

i plan on removing the crappy cargo area foam board and putting a sheet of plywood down in the cavity to which i will mount a distrubution block along with the sub amp and door speaker amp.
after that im going to cut a peice of plywood the shape and size of factory floor and place it down on top. thehn cut a square out the size of cavity and replace it with plexy glass, so you can see and adjust the amps by unscrewing the plexy sheet, and a fan for ventilation. going to cover that top piece of plywood with suade and finally i want to make a dress-up box to go around the subs so i have a nice cargo area again.
would like a nice clean install for once.

Any plan can work with the right process and follow-through. If you take pics of the area I could probably draft up a 3D cad image of the idea so you can look at it before you build it...and find errors before you make them.

my only concern for the cargo area project is im asuming i should run a heavier guage power wire to the back and into the distribution block, for the original amp and the new door speaker amp. im assuming i wouldnt be able to run both amps off that one power wire. also added a volt guage and it jumps around alot when the subs are on loud so maybe i should add a CAP again to save my alternator? Caps are a joke and unnecessary in almost every build imaginable. Save your money and trust me. also i have a switched remote wire so i can turn my subs off in my area, im assuming i can splice in the remote wire to connect the second amp so it doesnt turn off the speaker amp?
The better way to do this would be to simply have your subs on a separate gain knob, accessible in the cabin instantly. Most good sub amps come with a bass knob or at least the ability to have one.

also my head unit can suport two amps correct? i just need to run a second set of rca cables?
Your head unit supports two sets of preouts, so yes you'll be fine w/ two input channels...two amps provide that.

and im still trying to figure out a good design for the sub box, all i got so far is maybe build a wooden box to go around it with slots on the front where the speakers are to let the sound out (like your hidden install) (would still like it all to fit under the cargocover)
Let's cross that bridge when the specs are out and I get a chance to model what the subs "want" for space and design considerations.

BTW: i should probably ask this now, im good with car electrical but never hooked up an amp for the speakers. i just run the rca's to the back and conect it up like the sub amp, only difference being i have to run the speaker wire from amp to behind headunit and cut it into the aftermarket harness speaker wires?
The right way to do this car is to install new speaker wire in the doors. This isn't easy but you can do it. You need to run 16 gauge 4 conductor wire in there, or at least a pair of 16gauge wires...one for the tweeters and one for the woofers. The factory wire stays unused.

thanks so much for the help
If you want to learn the basics so we can discuss much more intimately the details (and elevate the conversation beyond the basics) just learn your heart out at http://www.bcae1.com. It will definitely help since I have a lot of advanced things to cover before you buy another item or install anything else.
 

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andjayik said:
i don't want to change the stock head unit? Just want something that sounds better then the stock speaker, but i think they sound good. Dont want to pay 200$ thought of somthing in the 150 and below?
For your budget the "d" series would be perfect, plus you'd have money left over for proper deadening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
sounds good i am going to look through that website tonight.

sub model is in this pic i think:


if it helps at all for now, theres alot of pics on my car domain :

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3103215/3

tommorow i will get time to take out the cargo floor and take some pics to show you. its a 2005 sport xlt.

and the only reason i hesitate running new wires into the doors is because of that white connector and lack of room in the boot.
 

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For your budget the "d" series would be perfect, plus you'd have money left over for proper deadening.[/quote]
are u talking about TS-D720PRS? I cant find anything on those?
 

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so those will actually sound better then stock with the oem head unit?
 

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Breensy said:
sounds good i am going to look through that website tonight.

sub model is in this pic i think:


if it helps at all for now, theres alot of pics on my car domain :

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3103215/3

tommorow i will get time to take out the cargo floor and take some pics to show you. its a 2005 sport xlt.

and the only reason i hesitate running new wires into the doors is because of that white connector and lack of room in the boot.
I know how to get around that connector, believe me. It is called a Molex, and you can get around it quickly. It is standard procedure for cars like this, ...how do you think so many pro's get it done? Trust me there is a way.

Anyway your Lanzar sub:
http://www.lanzar.com/manuals/MAXP104D-124D-154D.pdf

I'll need to get home sometime later this weekend and plot the system graphs for this sub. I'll post my graphs for you and show you what works.

If you are feeling gutsy and adventurous, you could take that box you have and measure the inside airspace (simple math), and the inner size and shape of the ports as well. With that, I can then show you the plot of what you have those subs in now, vs. what we can do with them. A "before" / "after" type of thing. Would be nice to see I think.

I did some modeling of a few stealth systems with the Escape of your vintage. Go see my thread about 3d models in this forum. You'll see a familiar trunk shape, that's the Escape.
 

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andjayik said:
so those will actually sound better then stock with the oem head unit?
A little, yes. But you need to amplify to create a non-clipping situation for your speakers.

If you are dead stock, you can keep it simple with an amp like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Acoustics-USB-21 ... 1|294%3A30

Or if you pony up a bit more money, you could use a 4ch amp like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Acoustics-USB-40 ... 1|294%3A30
and we could install a modest subwoofer and run it off the rear channels. Voila, instant simple system!

BTW, those US Acoustics amps are awesome for the money. They are old-school, revamped by the seller who knows what he's doing. He's done my friends well w/ their builds for the cost.
 

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what about 6x8
 

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andjayik said:
what about 6x8
What about it?

There's a reason expensive components don't come in oval shapes. The shape is not as geometrically perfect as a cone and so more distortion is introduced to your music. That's why this particular kit comes w/ 5x7 adapters. Of course you can make your own very quickly as well.
 
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