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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid and I just purchased the Pioneer 4200DVD. I want to do the install all together so I need to figure out what Speakers,Amp, and other items I should go with. My purchase plans got pushed back with a MECs pump relacement while out of town.

HU:
4200DVD- Currently have
Park brake Bypass
Dash Kit http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=95-5817
Aftermarket Harness http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=70-5521
Removal tools http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=86-5618

Deadener:
Dynamat Extreme- currently have
Overkill http://www.secondskinaudio.com/noise-filter/overkill.php?category=71
Luxury liner http://www.secondskinaudio.com/noise-barrier/luxury-liner.php?category=72
Spray Adhesive
Panel popper

Speakers:
6.5" componets
Adapter Plates http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=82-5600
Door glass like seen on. http://www.escape-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3254&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30and http://www.buwaldahybrids.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2687
Molex connector for door wiring?

Speaker Choices
Price Range $150 - $180 6.5" componets with ~ 180W RMS @ 4Ohms if XD 600/6 bridged , Active vs Passive?

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound (meaning, do you prefer your music live and natural, or more pre-recorded and boosted in some areas to accentuate the music?)

For the dollar, whatever that number might be:
Power/volume 1 2 3 4 5 Clarity/Detail

Next, tell me your favorite genres of music to go along with these scales.
Rock, Metal, Alternative : Tool, Mudvayne, Slipknot, Disturbed, The Doors,

Lastly, do you care about rear passengers and their sound? No

Amp-
4 Gauge wiring- Have
Amp- Torn between stealth install with JL XD600/6 and 8" sub vs Amp behind the panel and box for a sub. I would prefer to build a custom box by cutting panel where the amp is now and fiberglassing the side panel to save room and make it less noticeable but if don't do it well the replacement panel runs $250 a set. http://www.fordpartsdealer.com/seccat/e ... 130/31494/
 

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I was about to say, stick it where the batteries go if you don't have a hybrid! But you DO have a hybrid so that's out.

IMO, whatever you do make sure you focus on the efficiency of the system. Hybrids don't take to kindly to their power being sucked dry by a sound system. So amps like the Xd are a good choice, as might be the new Alpine PDX with less noise than its predecessor.

The Xd lacks a crossover capable of going active, so that's out unless you, A: change to another amp that is active-capable or B: install a processor to do the job. If you go with B:, I can only recommend the JBL MS8. Pretty much the holy grail of processing, with 8ch's of control, and on-board amps for moderate output on things like center and rear channels. Not cheap but there is no substitute. People are finding them for about $600 with things like Amazon coupons.

With the right subs (like a pair of 8's, or a trio or quad of 6.5's), you can probably succeed in making a tiny box that takes little room. You can also do what you are thinking but yes... those panels cost. NEW. you can always buy a used one out of the scrapyard, and tear into it instead of your new one.

For speakers,...I'm withholding my suggestions until I know more about what you want to do with active processing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you have suggestion as to the best amp to use with my Hybrid with out risking too much power draw? XD's seem pretty effecient and I have heard that the HD or Alpine PDX with the regulated voltage that they draw more power.

As for the MS-8, I just ordered it through Amazon for $440 Shipped.
 

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dyceskynes said:
Do you have suggestion as to the best amp to use with my Hybrid with out risking too much power draw? XD's seem pretty effecient and I have heard that the HD or Alpine PDX with the regulated voltage that they draw more power.

As for the MS-8, I just ordered it through Amazon for $440 Shipped.
Brilliant! The MS8 has sufficient clean power for your rears, and possibly even your tweeters if they are efficient enough. Given that, all you really need now is midbass and subwoofer power. Do you want to consider a 3-way setup? Possibly an A-pillar midrange-tweeter pod?

If you have an MS8,... I REALLY think you should go fully DIY with your drivers. If you can go 3-way (custom-fab some pods or use PVC tubing to make some adjustable pods), you'll have incredible potential here.

BTW that price for the MS8 was fantastic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have never considered going the route of a 3-way system, but I am more than willing to look into it. I will do some searches to see if I can find some others that have going the way of the 3 way. It also depends on the install as well as I have never excelled at the finish work, but with the MS8 I would hate to not use as many of the features as I can :). Do you have any 3-way installs linked that you can recommend?
 

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dyceskynes said:
I have never considered going the route of a 3-way system, but I am more than willing to look into it. I will do some searches to see if I can find some others that have going the way of the 3 way. It also depends on the install as well as I have never excelled at the finish work, but with the MS8 I would hate to not use as many of the features as I can :). Do you have any 3-way installs linked that you can recommend?
Not for the Tribute/Escape/Mariners as you would be among the first that I know of. I thought about 3-way with a pair of 3sixty.2's strapped together (back when the 3sixty.2 was relevant), but decided against it when I realized I'm not keeping this thing.

But DIYMA forum is where I would begin. Our build logs are awesome, lots of 3-way action. :woohoo:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I got lucky, there is no way I would spend $800 for a MS8, $600 is still really hard but $440... guess that was the magic number for me. 25% off the 4200DVD and 45% off the MS8.. I think my luck is now gone.
 

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Yeah but the foundation you've made is spectacular. I swear the stock speakers would probably sound amazing with the combo you have now. You should try it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks, to be honest I never throught I would have made such a start, but man am I a sucker for deals HAHA. I may give it a shot with stock speakers and see how it goes, but I have no idea when the MS8 will actually get to me and at this rate I have have speakers and as amp. If not though I will give it try.

39 more pages on the 3-way build up on DIYMA.
 

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One question on the MS8 before I plunk down my $450: Do you HAVE to use the volume control on the unit, rendering your factory steering wheel controls and volume knob useless? I wonder how much of a pain that is to use a remote every time you want to turn up/down the volume. Remotes can also get lost, fall under the seat while the volume is at 80 and you are driving down the highway, etc :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You can use the remote on the MS8 OR the source unit volume controls. No Worries there, I had the same fear myself so I read the manual and checked the forums.

"JBL MS-8 USER GUIDE.pdf"
Manual page 35
VOLUME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS (on the remote control)
Pressing either of these buttons at any time (except during the setup/calibration
process) will display the MS-8's System Volume screen, allowing you to change the
audio volume. The volume range is between -80dB and 0dB.
For the best results, leave the head unit's volume control set at the level that
produced the OK, OK, OK readings on the display during the setup process (see Input
Setup, on page 25), and use the MS-8's Volume Up and Volume Down buttons to
control the system's volume. You may also use the head unit's volume control to
control the system's volume.
 

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Agreed. Doing the volume on the unit is probably only a good idea if your head unit changes its EQ profile over the volume range (which the stock HU does, but aftermarkets typically do not.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
After looking at all the installs for 3-way I have decided to go with a 2 way setup for now for a few reasons.
1. I want to keep the install somewhat stealth and a 3-way in the front would be hard to miss.
2. Oh crap thats a lot of work.
3. Less crap from my wife for tearing apart a car that is not yet payed off and I have only had for 4 months.
 

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dyceskynes said:
After looking at all the installs for 3-way I have decided to go with a 2 way setup for now for a few reasons.
1. I want to keep the install somewhat stealth and a 3-way in the front would be hard to miss.
2. Oh crap thats a lot of work.
3. Less crap from my wife for tearing apart a car that is not yet payed off and I have only had for 4 months.
Fair enough! Those are basically the same reasons I didn't do it, especially #2.

I would recommend, then, considering a high Qts driver for IB use in those doors. I have used H-Audio Ebony drivers with great success, so I would definitely recommend them to you as well. There are many good DIY drivers to pick from, and they are often vastly superior to some "component set" you might purchase.

For a door panel installation on a two-way set, your woofer needs to do a few things right: High Qts (better restorative force), good Xmax, excellent frequency response without cone breakup clear to 4-5kHz, and good bottom-end response. It is harder to make a quality 2-way compatible woofer than a 3-way one, because the frequency range of performance is much bigger. In fact, 3-way setups can be dirt-cheap and still sound amazing. I put an entire killer 3-way setup together with DIY speakers that cost about $150 for all 6 drivers, sounded mind-blowing. 2-ways just take more money period.

For the tweeter in a two-way on this car, I think you should go after the A-pillar for your mounting. I did door sills by the door handle but I wouldn't do it again. One, those A-pillars are cheap replacement parts to restore back to stock. Two, its further forward, for more imaging and stage depth. Three, you don't have to run two sets of wires through an already packed Molex. Just one. For a quality tweeter, check out the SB Acoustics Neo-Dimple dome. Its something I think would do really well here.

For DIY speaker ideas, check out http://www.zaphaudio.com and of course you are already entrenched in DIYMA.

For sub, I have determined a ported, relatively low tune setup sounds fantastic in this truck. The cabin gain inherent in our vehicle along with a 28-32hz tuned design makes for a wonderfully full, deep, and convincing bass stage. A single hard-pounding 8 is instantly on my suggestion list. Tiny box (relatively), ported... oh yes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Great response, I will check out what you suggested for the speakers and dig into the T/S parameters.

Oh no.... you said A-pillar. That is a word I really did not want to hear, mainly because it is not much more work to put in a midrange next to that tweeter. And I never did price the A-pillars... And over all better performance at a better price.

Hangs head and dives back into DIYMA for more research.

Another question though, if I would happen to do a 3-way that would use 6 of the 8 channels on the MS-8, how would I intergrate the rear fill and sub? Maybe just drop out the rear fill all together?
 

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dyceskynes said:
Great response, I will check out what you suggested for the speakers and dig into the T/S parameters.

Oh no.... you said A-pillar. That is a word I really did not want to hear, mainly because it is not much more work to put in a midrange next to that tweeter. And I never did price the A-pillars... And over all better performance at a better price.

Hangs head and dives back into DIYMA for more research.

Another question though, if I would happen to do a 3-way that would use 6 of the 8 channels on the MS-8, how would I intergrate the rear fill and sub? Maybe just drop out the rear fill all together?
Correct, rear fill drops out, or you could just use the stock stuff (like i do) at low, low volumes off deck power. Simple stuff.

There is not one thing wrong with you sticking with a 2way, or upgrading to a 3way...so go with what feels right. One thought I had for a three way: One fella had a pair of Ascendant audio woofers in the classifieds, and they sell them at AA (also known as Fi Audio) though their website doesn't show them. You could also order up a set of CSS SDX7's, a pair of Exodus Audio Anarchy's, or hunt down a pair of Mpyre mids like I had once. Any of these midbass monsters would then pair up with something like a TB or Fountek midrange (2-3"), then some tiny tweeter like the Dayton ND20FA like I have ($8 bucks each!)
 
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