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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to install a subwoofer/amp in an 02 Escape XLS, but I want to keep the spare tire in the cargo area tire well (I'm gonna need it the moment it's not there...). I really like the idea of a stealthy install and I would want to use this as a learning experience since I've never installed a subwoofer before. I honestly think that a single 8" or 10" would do me well, but that's only because I have a 12" in my home theater and that much more than enough (are cars different in this regard?).

So far I've managed to install a JVC KD-R600 head unit and Kenwood KFC-C6882ie speakers in all four doors. I also insulated the doors using eDead liquid deadener and their Teklite closed-cell foam. And I managed to do all this without blowing anything up! :D I'm happy with the system for the most part: I bought the head unit mostly for the USB flash drive input and it seems to drive the speakers pretty well. The speakers sound pretty darn good to me once I get them equalized properly (initially they're very bright). The only thing is that when the speakers try to produce some bass, they also seem to produce some unwanted midrange (or it is midbass?) sound, making them sound a bit muddy. So really what I want to do is get a subwoofer to offload bass duties to so that the speakers don't have to do it, while providing a little more low end punch (quality over quantity for me). Also, you can probably tell that I did this with price in mind.

I'm planning on pulling up the plastic panels and floor in the cargo area anyway since insulating the doors made me realize just how much noise is coming from back there, so maybe I'll find a good place to put a sub at that point. If anyone has any ideas about a good, but cheap, sub/amp combo or where to put them, lay it on me.

Thanks a lot,
Jesse

PS. If you haven't used deadening, I would highly recommend it. I only deadened my doors with pretty much the cheapest stuff available and it still made a very noticeable difference. I put the liquid deadener on both layers of the metal door frame and the foam on the outer (closest to the outside) layer. I also put a coat of deadener and a layer of foam on the inside of the plastic door panel. There is less wind and car noise coming through the doors. Also, I can actually hear almost the full range of the music while on the freeway. Before, a lot of the lower and some mid frequencies were lost. However, there's still a good amound of wind noise, which I think is coming from the cargo area (I need to put insulation over the wheel wells, too). I still have around half a gallon of the deadener about about half of the foam left (I bought 40 sqft.). I would, however, NOT recommend using the liquid stuff. It works, but it just too hard to apply. The foam sheets were much easier by comparison.
 

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hey there,

check out my sig for install # 2, and check out the thread on this forum that shows my 3D cad drawings. I think I have a way to make a modest sub work perfectly with your truck.

How good are you with fiberglass?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I did look through both of those threads and noticed that you do have CAD drawings for the older Escapes, which is actually what prompted me to make this thread ("maybe it IS possible..."). At first, I was thinking that the enclosures were going on top of the plastic floor that covers the tire well and was going to ask if you hinge those to get to the spare tire; however, now that I think about it I would guess that you remove that plastic cover entirely and your false floor replaces it (making the floor of the cargo area the same height as before). Is this correct? I thought about that as I was typing this, so I guess it just took me a while for that to click. Depending on what I get done tomorrow, I might pull that cargo area apart and see what I can do with it. I'm going to pull it apart anyway for deadening (though I think I'm a little short on the foam now that I've looked in the box I kept it in).

I don't have any experience with fiberglass, but I don't think I would mind learning. I live in an apartment, so I don't have a garage that I can get messy in. I do have some basic woodworking skills, but don't have a lot of tools.

Thanks again
-J
 

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Ever considered finding a stock subwoofer/amp combination off ebay or other places online? People sometimes sell them as parts, or a complete unit from their truck. You'd just have to get an interior panel from a 1st gen limited to cover the sub enclosure back up. I'd put an aftermarket driver in the cabinet, and use a small class D amp to drive it with. Others on this forum have done this, with apparently good results.
 

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Nah, I just make my own all the time.

If you lack the tools and space, it can get "fun" to do builds like this.

Take pics of your cargo area and let's see what you can work with. Have you already eliminated things like the MTX thunderform enclosures?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have thought about finding the stock sub mount and panel, but I haven't had much luck in finding a panel. Plus I kind of like having that cubby hole to store my jumper cables and such, though I probably could do without. The thing about the Thunderform is that it isn't stealthy (though it IS a good design) and that I like the idea of "rolling my own" as it were. :fire: I like projects like this and want to learn about audio installs, which I don't know that the MTX would lend itself to.

I'll try to get pictures of my cargo area when I pull the trim and carpet out. I don't know that I'll get to it today (I'm going to replace the fuel filter first since I don't know when or if the last owner did so), but I can do it within the next few days.

The nice thing is that I bike to work and the grocery store since it's they're only a mile away, so I can have ongoing projects without having to worry about needing the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here's an ImageShack gallery with some pictures of my cargo area. I pulled out the plastic floor and got some shots of the tire well.

http://img200.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=062809210411.jpg

I assume that the weird fuzzy stuff on the underside of the carpet is for noise dampening, but it doesn't seem to really do much. There was a small amount of that stuff on the door panels as well, but I just ended up removing it. Is that stuff worth keeping or should I toss it? The stains on the fuzzy stuff and the plastic floor are from a bag with a leaking ATF bottle in it. The bag's gone now at least.

It looks like I'd have gobs of room if it weren't for that tall screw post in the center of the wheel well. A large plastic wingnut is what actually holds the jack and spare tire in the wheel well and there's a few inches between that and the plastic floor I'm pretty sure. That post is also used to secure the plastic floor (with a large plastic nut-thing).

I imagine that the false floor would just replace the plastic floor, so maybe I can just cut that post down. I don't know if it'd be useful for the flase floor or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
In the spirit of Haloween and procrastination, I have finally decided to bring this thread and project back from the dead. :D

I think what I am going to do is try making a round fiberglass enclosure that fits into the spare tire well, while keeping the tire and jack in there. I figure that no one will be able to see the enclosure, so this would be good practice. I would then replace the plastic floor with one made of wood and attach the fierglass enclosure to that. This is still pretty early in planning, so who knows what might change.

Currently I'm looking at equipment and do not really know what to go with. Here's what I have found so far:

Kenwood KAC-8404 Amp
Pioneer TS-SW251 10" Sub

I decided that I would like a 4-channel amp so that I can run 2 channels to the front speakers and bridge the other 2 to the sub. It turns out that my headunit (JVC KD-R600) has only line-level outputs for the sub, so I need an amp with speaker-level inputs or a line-out converter. I definitely need a shallow-mount sub so that it'll fit in the spare tire well. I chose this one because another member on here had one (or one like it) and was happy with it. I might get a wiring kit from KnuKonceptz.

I would look on eBay, but I wouldn't know what I'm looking for. :shrug:

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'll try to draw something up in MS Paint or something to give an idea of what I envision the setup looking like.
 

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The J said:
In the spirit of Haloween and procrastination, I have finally decided to bring this thread and project back from the dead. :D

I think what I am going to do is try making a round fiberglass enclosure that fits into the spare tire well, while keeping the tire and jack in there. I figure that no one will be able to see the enclosure, so this would be good practice. I would then replace the plastic floor with one made of wood and attach the fierglass enclosure to that. This is still pretty early in planning, so who knows what might change.

Currently I'm looking at equipment and do not really know what to go with. Here's what I have found so far:

Kenwood KAC-8404 Amp
Pioneer TS-SW251 10" Sub

I decided that I would like a 4-channel amp so that I can run 2 channels to the front speakers and bridge the other 2 to the sub. It turns out that my headunit (JVC KD-R600) has only line-level outputs for the sub, so I need an amp with speaker-level inputs or a line-out converter. I definitely need a shallow-mount sub so that it'll fit in the spare tire well. I chose this one because another member on here had one (or one like it) and was happy with it. I might get a wiring kit from KnuKonceptz.

I would look on eBay, but I wouldn't know what I'm looking for. :shrug:

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'll try to draw something up in MS Paint or something to give an idea of what I envision the setup looking like.
4ch amp is a smart idea, but I think I can get you a better amp than a basic Kenwood model. SQ on that one isn't all that hot. The sub you picked out is fine and all, but keep in mind they need a lot of airspace so build the box big. Even though it is a small shallow sub. The SQ is pretty good for the money though. Don't be afraid to replace the deck with something of higher quality. Sell yours, buy another, whatever you gotta do. To turn a high speaker level signal into a low level, you give up a TON of clarity and detail overall. If you have to, just pick out an amp that takes the high level speaker signal IN, and compromise that way.

Knukonceptz is great stuff, no worries there. Just don't use their KONFUSED stuff, the compression fittings strip all the time. The traditional models work great.

To draw up systems, I use the free Googlesketch. It allows you to model everything perfectly, and is easy to learn.

I will hunt you down a nice powerful amp. What is your deadening plan?
 

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Amp found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLANET-AUDIO-1400-W ... 518b97f403

Handmade, from an era when Planet Audio was awesome. This is a special class D fullrange amp, with more power than you'll believe until you actually use it. You need to bridge the rear channels and use a 4ohm sub. A dual 2ohm, dual 8ohm (not popular), or a single 4ohm would be the right way to go for a single sub.

edit: sub found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-TS-SW1241D- ... 4ceb9c708d

The seller is Stereoneeds, they've sold me several items and they are dependable. They give it a 3 year warranty, which is awesome.

Don't forget to enable bing cashback when doing eBay purchases. Its worth at least 8% back to you which is worth it.

*Further edit: Another solution is to use small-format subs and chain them together. I have used Tangband 6.5" 1139 subs before with EXCELLENT results, and they are very powerful in groups. Like 4 6.5" subs running a total 4ohm load would KILL in the back, with a bit of tuning and box design work. So don't think you are forced to use the spare tire well. You could build a sub box AROUND the spare tire well, and just use that space instead. I have pics of a sub box I made to do just that, I can show you if you want to see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks a lot for the responses! :shock: There's a lot of areas to cover, it seems, so I'll have to break things up a bit.

fourthmeal said:
4ch amp is a smart idea, but I think I can get you a better amp than a basic Kenwood model. SQ on that one isn't all that hot. The sub you picked out is fine and all, but keep in mind they need a lot of airspace so build the box big. Even though it is a small shallow sub. The SQ is pretty good for the money though. Don't be afraid to replace the deck with something of higher quality. Sell yours, buy another, whatever you gotta do. To turn a high speaker level signal into a low level, you give up a TON of clarity and detail overall. If you have to, just pick out an amp that takes the high level speaker signal IN, and compromise that way.
Appreciate the info on the amp; I just happened to see that it has the speaker-level inputs. I thought I read that the sub would require a minimum 0.35 cu. ft. enclosure, which I figured I could do given my current plans. Does that figure the volume of the box minus the volume of the sub or is the sub usually accounted for already in that figure? Also, I read on DIYMA (I signed up and have just been reading up) that polyfill makes a box seem bigger. Would you recommend this or is that a sort of "help, I made my box too small!" last resort?

I would like to keep the deck for now, but plan on upgrading in the future.

On a not-so-related note, I think that this forum would benefit from a recommended equipment thread, if you were so inclined to make one. ;)

fourthmeal said:
Knukonceptz is great stuff, no worries there. Just don't use their KONFUSED stuff, the compression fittings strip all the time. The traditional models work great.

To draw up systems, I use the free Googlesketch. It allows you to model everything perfectly, and is easy to learn.
Gotcha. :thumb: I've heard of that program but never used it, so I'll have to give it a go. I've used Blender a bit, but certainly am not a pro.

fourthmeal said:
I will hunt you down a nice powerful amp. What is your deadening plan?
Admittedly, my deadening plan wasn't so hot. :doh: I used eDead liquid stuff and their closed cell foam all throughout the car: doors, cargo space, floor, and ceiling. It made a difference, but to be honest I'm rather disappointed after all of the work and money I put into it (though I wasn't really sure what to expect). The main problem is that I'm pretty sure the foam stuff is starting to come off (it has an adhesive backing). I had a lot of trouble getting it on the ceiling because it would be half off the next morning, even with spray adhesive. I was frustrated and decided to just throw the headliner back on and deal with it at a more opportune time.

This was before I had realized SoundDeadenerShowdown sold its own products. Last time I read it was when you have a thread in a different Escape forum for building systems, back when the SDS was a review site (and I remember reading that the reviews were outdated). Only recently did I look in your sig here and think "Hey, he sells stuff now! And it's good stuff! And it would have been cheaper than what I did!" :wall:

I think what I might do is gradually go through and see what can be improved. I had thought about trying to put the MLV over the eDead foam, but it already seems to have enough trouble on its own without a pound of vinyl hanging off it. It would stink to have to rip out all of the foam, but have no problems doing it if that is the better route (though winter is coming).

It's all good, though. Just a lesson learned is all. :) Also, I need to go through and seal up holes in the doors' metal skins. I never did that because I was worried about needed to maintain stuff inside the door, but then realized that I could probably just screw plates into the door...

fourthmeal said:
Amp found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLANET-AUDIO-1400-W ... 518b97f403

Handmade, from an era when Planet Audio was awesome. This is a special class D fullrange amp, with more power than you'll believe until you actually use it. You need to bridge the rear channels and use a 4ohm sub. A dual 2ohm, dual 8ohm (not popular), or a single 4ohm would be the right way to go for a single sub.
That's a lotta powa!! Is there a point where I need to worry about drawing too much power from the car's electrical system, or would I still not even be close with this amp? I assume that I'd have to really crank it to 11 to worry, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I would like to keep my headunit for the time being and upgrade it later down the road. This will allow me to save up for something really nice. :cigar: Would an amp with speaker-level inputs be better in my case or would LOCs to this amp be best? I can go a bit higher on the price of the amp, if that helps at all (around $200 would be good).

fourthmeal said:
edit: sub found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-TS-SW1241D- ... 4ceb9c708d

The seller is Stereoneeds, they've sold me several items and they are dependable. They give it a 3 year warranty, which is awesome.

Don't forget to enable bing cashback when doing eBay purchases. Its worth at least 8% back to you which is worth it.

*Further edit: Another solution is to use small-format subs and chain them together. I have used Tangband 6.5" 1139 subs before with EXCELLENT results, and they are very powerful in groups. Like 4 6.5" subs running a total 4ohm load would KILL in the back, with a bit of tuning and box design work. So don't think you are forced to use the spare tire well. You could build a sub box AROUND the spare tire well, and just use that space instead. I have pics of a sub box I made to do just that, I can show you if you want to see.
I will certainly check out what that seller has to offer, then! It seems like this sub requires a bigger box than the other. I did some very rough measurements and think that I could get about a .35 cu. ft. enclosure if I used the tire well and left the included scissor jack in there. I could certainly raise the floor if needed and I figured that a fiberglass enclosure would allow it to flow around and in the tire well, maximizing space utilization. However, I'm thinking that it would be cool to build a compartment to store the jack, flashlight, jumper cables, and a couple other things I keep back there. I wonder if I could incorporate that into the false floor somehow.

I saw you had pictures of a Mazda 3 you setup around the tire well and I think I saw something like that in your CAD drawing thread as well. If I were to go with a similar idea, would I still be able to keep things stealth? I probably don't need to, but stealth installs seem so cool and elegant to me.

There's quite a few Escapes around here. Thanks for helping me make mine both the quietest and loudest one in the area!

**Edit: I don't know if this changes the gameplan at all, but my plan was to cut off most of that giant screw in the middle of the wheel well. There's wingnut that's used to hold the jack and tire down, but that's all near the bottom. I think the only reason it is so long is so the plastic platform can be held down with another big nut. Since I'll end up replacing that plastic floor, I won't need the screw to be so long.
 

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There IS a lot to cover and we might end up jumbled into a mosh-pit here full of questions and answers. I'll separate my answers again in your quote. I recommend we start focusing on one item at a time in the future though.

The J said:
Thanks a lot for the responses! :shock: There's a lot of areas to cover, it seems, so I'll have to break things up a bit.

fourthmeal said:
4ch amp is a smart idea, but I think I can get you a better amp than a basic Kenwood model. SQ on that one isn't all that hot. The sub you picked out is fine and all, but keep in mind they need a lot of airspace so build the box big. Even though it is a small shallow sub. The SQ is pretty good for the money though. Don't be afraid to replace the deck with something of higher quality. Sell yours, buy another, whatever you gotta do. To turn a high speaker level signal into a low level, you give up a TON of clarity and detail overall. If you have to, just pick out an amp that takes the high level speaker signal IN, and compromise that way.
Appreciate the info on the amp; I just happened to see that it has the speaker-level inputs. I thought I read that the sub would require a minimum 0.35 cu. ft. enclosure, which I figured I could do given my current plans. Does that figure the volume of the box minus the volume of the sub or is the sub usually accounted for already in that figure? Subs aren't figured in to volume measurements. You must compensate for that. A tiny box kills the bass, which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the sub itself. Ideal .707 Qtc is your target, before polyfill. Also, I read on DIYMA (I signed up and have just been reading up) that polyfill makes a box seem bigger. Would you recommend this or is that a sort of "help, I made my box too small!" last resort? I use polyfill and Ensolite products in my boxes, but only to fine tune. It doesn't make tiny boxes seem all that much bigger (because you can't put much polyfill in a small box), but a big box can sound a bit bigger with polyfill. Adding it doesn't do anything bad as long as the stuff actually doesn't get stuck in the sub magnet area or something.

I would like to keep the deck for now, but plan on upgrading in the future.

On a not-so-related note, I think that this forum would benefit from a recommended equipment thread, if you were so inclined to make one. ;) I will consider making such a thread. I just hate doing recommendations on things I've never used or seen used, and so most recommendations are head units (which I just don't keep up on.) These days a lot of people just don't care about front stage sound quality and proper SQ. Just BBBAAAASSSSSS. Which gets OOOOLLDDDDD. :)

fourthmeal said:
Knukonceptz is great stuff, no worries there. Just don't use their KONFUSED stuff, the compression fittings strip all the time. The traditional models work great.

To draw up systems, I use the free Googlesketch. It allows you to model everything perfectly, and is easy to learn.
Gotcha. :thumb: I've heard of that program but never used it, so I'll have to give it a go. I've used Blender a bit, but certainly am not a pro.

fourthmeal said:
I will hunt you down a nice powerful amp. What is your deadening plan?
Admittedly, my deadening plan wasn't so hot. :doh: I used eDead liquid stuff and their closed cell foam all throughout the car: doors, cargo space, floor, and ceiling. It made a difference, but to be honest I'm rather disappointed after all of the work and money I put into it (though I wasn't really sure what to expect). The main problem is that I'm pretty sure the foam stuff is starting to come off (it has an adhesive backing). I had a lot of trouble getting it on the ceiling because it would be half off the next morning, even with spray adhesive. I was frustrated and decided to just throw the headliner back on and deal with it at a more opportune time. I too have been heavily disappointed by elemental. For the CCF falling apart, just order the spray you see on RAAMaudio's website. They don't make it, but that particular brand is quite good. Just follow the instructions carefully. Foam IS foam, as long as it is closed-cell and the proper density (which the elemental product IS.) I don't use liquid deadeners primarily because there is no way to take it off typically. You know you could just add some CLD tiles to the deadener in strategic areas, and then recover with CCF and or MLV and CCF if you want. Typically I like using MLV in horizontal areas, like the trunk area. Vertical is difficult.

This was before I had realized SoundDeadenerShowdown sold its own products. Last time I read it was when you have a thread in a different Escape forum for building systems, back when the SDS was a review site (and I remember reading that the reviews were outdated). Only recently did I look in your sig here and think "Hey, he sells stuff now! And it's good stuff! And it would have been cheaper than what I did!" :wall: I did the exact same thing.

I think what I might do is gradually go through and see what can be improved. I had thought about trying to put the MLV over the eDead foam, but it already seems to have enough trouble on its own without a pound of vinyl hanging off it. It would stink to have to rip out all of the foam, but have no problems doing it if that is the better route (though winter is coming).

It's all good, though. Just a lesson learned is all. :) Also, I need to go through and seal up holes in the doors' metal skins. I never did that because I was worried about needed to maintain stuff inside the door, but then realized that I could probably just screw plates into the door...Real Estate signs work well, as do fiberglass panels. There is a writeup in DIYMA all about exactly how to do that.

fourthmeal said:
Amp found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLANET-AUDIO-1400-W ... 518b97f403

Handmade, from an era when Planet Audio was awesome. This is a special class D fullrange amp, with more power than you'll believe until you actually use it. You need to bridge the rear channels and use a 4ohm sub. A dual 2ohm, dual 8ohm (not popular), or a single 4ohm would be the right way to go for a single sub.
That's a lotta powa!! Is there a point where I need to worry about drawing too much power from the car's electrical system, or would I still not even be close with this amp? I assume that I'd have to really crank it to 11 to worry, but thought I'd ask anyway.
This is a fullrange class D amp, so it is far more efficient than a typical amp and thus less power draw. You won't need to upgrade your electrical system, just run a single quality 4 gauge run to the amp. I say stick with this amp. Also I noticed your HU has a single RCA out. This is sufficient to run the 4channel amp. You might need to get a set of y splitters, or tap a button on the amp, but you can do it without any other parts. You won't have fine control over the sub volume but that's just an inconvenience, not a big deal other than just tuning right the first time. Otherwise we could hunt down a 5ch amp with a bass knob on it, which would do it with a single RCA pair AND give you fine control of the sub. I'll look around...

I would like to keep my headunit for the time being and upgrade it later down the road. This will allow me to save up for something really nice. :cigar: Would an amp with speaker-level inputs be better in my case or would LOCs to this amp be best? I can go a bit higher on the price of the amp, if that helps at all (around $200 would be good).

fourthmeal said:
edit: sub found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-TS-SW1241D- ... 4ceb9c708d

The seller is Stereoneeds, they've sold me several items and they are dependable. They give it a 3 year warranty, which is awesome.

Don't forget to enable bing cashback when doing eBay purchases. Its worth at least 8% back to you which is worth it.

*Further edit: Another solution is to use small-format subs and chain them together. I have used Tangband 6.5" 1139 subs before with EXCELLENT results, and they are very powerful in groups. Like 4 6.5" subs running a total 4ohm load would KILL in the back, with a bit of tuning and box design work. So don't think you are forced to use the spare tire well. You could build a sub box AROUND the spare tire well, and just use that space instead. I have pics of a sub box I made to do just that, I can show you if you want to see.
I will certainly check out what that seller has to offer, then! It seems like this sub requires a bigger box than the other. I did some very rough measurements and think that I could get about a .35 cu. ft. enclosure if I used the tire well and left the included scissor jack in there. I could certainly raise the floor if needed and I figured that a fiberglass enclosure would allow it to flow around and in the tire well, maximizing space utilization.Yes usually a slightly raised floor is needed. Just an inch or 1.5". The factory carpet cover usually goes right on. However, I'm thinking that it would be cool to build a compartment to store the jack, flashlight, jumper cables, and a couple other things I keep back there. I wonder if I could incorporate that into the false floor somehow. I say consider just keeping that in the spare wheel area, and use the area around it for maximum space. I'm falling more and more in love with the idea of using several 6.5" subs in your truck. I need some pics of your trunk, including some measurements to see what is even feasible this way.

I saw you had pictures of a Mazda 3 you setup around the tire well and I think I saw something like that in your CAD drawing thread as well. If I were to go with a similar idea, would I still be able to keep things stealth? I probably don't need to, but stealth installs seem so cool and elegant to me.I'm a stealth installer 1st, and a show installer dead last. I like them to hide as much as reasonable, so you and I are on the same wavelength. That Mazda3 install didn't end up going through because the proposed sub I wanted to use never got built...and nothing seemed to fit in. These days that's not the case, there is the very powerful Stereo Integrity BM about to start production. I should have never thrown that box away though...somebody in the 3 community could have used it. I see a box like that working out extremely well for you, though. The truck has more space, and you can still keep it stock. If you recall my 2nd build, it was full-stealth using slats to let the bass vent through. This worked better than I thought it would, and I think it would work well for you too. I still need some pics w/ measurements to fully understand the space you have though.

There's quite a few Escapes around here. Thanks for helping me make mine both the quietest and loudest one in the area!
I will do my best in this regard!

**Edit: I don't know if this changes the gameplan at all, but my plan was to cut off most of that giant screw in the middle of the wheel well. There's wingnut that's used to hold the jack and tire down, but that's all near the bottom. I think the only reason it is so long is so the plastic platform can be held down with another big nut. Since I'll end up replacing that plastic floor, I won't need the screw to be so long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll try to go one step at a time and check stuff of the list, as it were. Starting with the amp:

fourthmeal said:
This is a fullrange class D amp, so it is far more efficient than a typical amp and thus less power draw. You won't need to upgrade your electrical system, just run a single quality 4 gauge run to the amp. I say stick with this amp. Also I noticed your HU has a single RCA out. This is sufficient to run the 4channel amp. You might need to get a set of y splitters, or tap a button on the amp, but you can do it without any other parts. You won't have fine control over the sub volume but that's just an inconvenience, not a big deal other than just tuning right the first time. Otherwise we could hunt down a 5ch amp with a bass knob on it, which would do it with a single RCA pair AND give you fine control of the sub. I'll look around...
In that case, I will order the 4 channel amp you found and a 4ga. wiring kit from Knukonceptz. So, I can bridge a pair of channels for the sub and leave the other two alone for now. I don't mind not having a volume control for the sub. Also, I think my headunit does have stereo outputs on the back, but if not I can easily find a Y-splitter if needed.

In the future, I will get a head unit with preamp outputs for the front speakers and subwoofer and then utilize the other two channels on the amp.
 

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The J said:
I'll try to go one step at a time and check stuff of the list, as it were. Starting with the amp:

fourthmeal said:
This is a fullrange class D amp, so it is far more efficient than a typical amp and thus less power draw. You won't need to upgrade your electrical system, just run a single quality 4 gauge run to the amp. I say stick with this amp. Also I noticed your HU has a single RCA out. This is sufficient to run the 4channel amp. You might need to get a set of y splitters, or tap a button on the amp, but you can do it without any other parts. You won't have fine control over the sub volume but that's just an inconvenience, not a big deal other than just tuning right the first time. Otherwise we could hunt down a 5ch amp with a bass knob on it, which would do it with a single RCA pair AND give you fine control of the sub. I'll look around...
In that case, I will order the 4 channel amp you found and a 4ga. wiring kit from Knukonceptz. So, I can bridge a pair of channels for the sub and leave the other two alone for now. I don't mind not having a volume control for the sub. Also, I think my headunit does have stereo outputs on the back, but if not I can easily find a Y-splitter if needed.

In the future, I will get a head unit with preamp outputs for the front speakers and subwoofer and then utilize the other two channels on the amp.
Yes judging by the link you sent to me regarding your HU, it has one set of RCA outs that can be used full-range or sub-range. You'll simply take a run of RCA's to your single amp and run a splitter set to your amp. I'd split with a dual pair of 1-female to 2-male splitters, I found a set of 2 perfectly good Scosche units in Walmart of all places for $5.99, this model right here is a bit more but will match the quality of Knukonceptz: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetai ... =KARSS1F2M

I think I can save you a bit of money and suggest this setup instead. I run PG wire myself:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-Gold-AKIT42 ... 53dda94c80

And just pick up spade connectors when the amp comes in so they'll fit the 4 gauge to the amp connections.

Now, for other amp options just to stay flexible:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-GTO5355-CAR-AUD ... 4cebb17d60
Notice the bass knob...and this is a great amp.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-RUB5-80 ... 3ef6f16c3a
This is a pretty good amp, it is a resurrection of the Soundstream lineup but supposed to be great. SS is trying to regain the crown again.
This amp also has a crossover system that should be able to run a full active setup if you want to in the future. Meaning...no more coaxials sapping the sound quality in the front end.

OR, one option you have is to run the 4ch now, and then upgrade in the future to a matching sub amp, and at the same time go active too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
fourthmeal said:
I think I can save you a bit of money and suggest this setup instead. I run PG wire myself:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-Gold-AKIT42 ... 53dda94c80

And just pick up spade connectors when the amp comes in so they'll fit the 4 gauge to the amp connections.

...

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-RUB5-80 ... 3ef6f16c3a
This is a pretty good amp, it is a resurrection of the Soundstream lineup but supposed to be great. SS is trying to regain the crown again.
This amp also has a crossover system that should be able to run a full active setup if you want to in the future. Meaning...no more coaxials sapping the sound quality in the front end.
I pulled the trigger on the Soundstream amp here. I like the expandability that it will end up offering, which I hope will make future upgrades easier. I couldn't get myself to spend the extra on the JBL amp, but I'm sure I'd have been happy with either amp.

I'll probably end up getting that cable kit as well. Getting one of these kits would be cheaper than going to Lowes and getting wire there. 25ft of 4ga. wire would have been almost $30 alone there! *Edit: Bought the cable kit. Didn't notice at first that it also has free shipping.
 

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Perfect! We need a 2ohm final load for the subs then.

BTW there may be an issue, the amp's manual does not mention a bass knob. That looks like it isn't actually part of the amp. So you need to be aware of that. However, you can run just one set of RCA's into the amp and it will do the splitting inside, so that's an option if you can get the bass where you want it.

Next question, should we talk subs next?
 

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Are bass knobs even needed if one can adjust the sub out from the HU? I've never had a bass knob. My HU (in other vehicle) can adjust the sub out +-12db.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I looked on the Soundstream website and it appears that only the monoblock amp comes with a bass knob. That's fine by me, though. I do know that my headunit has a subwoofer volume control buried in its menus, but I don't know what the adjustment range is.

It sounds like moving to subwoofers is the next logical step, so that sounds good to me. You mentioned having several 6.5" subwoofers back there, which sounds interesting to say the least. I've read about the Tang Band 6.5" woofers, but don't remember if what I read was good or bad. :bill:

How is a subwoofer affected by the shape of a box? I plan on raising the false floor up a bit. Does all the volume now under the floor help the box size, or do size measurements only assume a cube box?

I think I'll have time to play with Google Sketchup this weekend, so I might be able to draw out what I'm asking if it helps.
 

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The J said:
I looked on the Soundstream website and it appears that only the monoblock amp comes with a bass knob. That's fine by me, though. I do know that my headunit has a subwoofer volume control buried in its menus, but I don't know what the adjustment range is.
This is bad because you only have one set of RCA's on that head unit. That is a critical issue because you can A: Run just that to the amp and run without a bass knob...just set it once and get it right... or B: Run speaker-level to the amp and do it that way, perhaps by fading the signal. You can NOT run both line level and RCA level signal to the amp at the same time. That is how they blow up. Your head unit is severely lacking in RCA's right now. I would nix this head unit in an extreme hurry if I were in your shoes. I know you don't want to, but it is not suitable for a perfect install. If I were in your shoes, I'd pick up the extremely cheap ($160) but a little ugly Clarion 785USB. This unit is full-active with time alignment, so future upgrades will be effortless. It also had bluetooth and USB. SQ on it is astounding according to users of it. There are other head units to buy like the Alpine CDA9887 but for $250 and up...so its a money issue. If you decide the JVC is staying in, I recommend running your RCA's to the amp as-is, and just tune it so it sounds good all around. You can always add a little EQ with the head unit if you need more or less bass for a particular album.

It sounds like moving to subwoofers is the next logical step, so that sounds good to me. You mentioned having several 6.5" subwoofers back there, which sounds interesting to say the least. I've read about the Tang Band 6.5" woofers, but don't remember if what I read was good or bad. :bill: I read a ton too, and having used them in a small truck I can tell you they pound pretty hard when they are in multiples. For the space you have, they are certainly an option. I could see them facing forward towards the rear seats, which would sound pretty great I think. All under a cover of course.

How is a subwoofer affected by the shape of a box? I plan on raising the false floor up a bit. Does all the volume now under the floor help the box size, or do size measurements only assume a cube box? airspace is airspace, no matter how it comes. Raising the floor should be done with precision measurements. You can use foam peanuts to measure odd spaces.

I think I'll have time to play with Google Sketchup this weekend, so I might be able to draw out what I'm asking if it helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
fourthmeal said:
This is bad because you only have one set of RCA's on that head unit. That is a critical issue because you can A: Run just that to the amp and run without a bass knob...just set it once and get it right... or B: Run speaker-level to the amp and do it that way, perhaps by fading the signal. You can NOT run both line level and RCA level signal to the amp at the same time. That is how they blow up. Your head unit is severely lacking in RCA's right now. I would nix this head unit in an extreme hurry if I were in your shoes. I know you don't want to, but it is not suitable for a perfect install. If I were in your shoes, I'd pick up the extremely cheap ($160) but a little ugly Clarion 785USB. This unit is full-active with time alignment, so future upgrades will be effortless. It also had bluetooth and USB. SQ on it is astounding according to users of it. There are other head units to buy like the Alpine CDA9887 but for $250 and up...so its a money issue. If you decide the JVC is staying in, I recommend running your RCA's to the amp as-is, and just tune it so it sounds good all around. You can always add a little EQ with the head unit if you need more or less bass for a particular album.
I certainly wouldn't run both RCAs and high-level to the amp. :angel: Sorry, I probably should have clarified that the subwoofer volume control affects only the rear output RCAs as far as I can tell.

I will change the headunit at some point in the not-too-distant future to get the extra outputs (and maybe HD Radio!), but I want to wait on that to help spread the cost of all this.

fourthmeal said:
I read a ton too, and having used them in a small truck I can tell you they pound pretty hard when they are in multiples. For the space you have, they are certainly an option. I could see them facing forward towards the rear seats, which would sound pretty great I think. All under a cover of course.
Is it the Vas parameter that states required box volume? Does box volume increase proportionately with the number of speakers? According to the Tang Band website, the Vas of the 6.5" subwoofer is 11.78L or .041cu. ft. So if I were to get 3 or 4 of these woofers, would I then need a box between 1.2 and 1.6 cu. ft.? Is is possible to use these speakers in a false floor install like your install #2?
 
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