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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2010 Escape limited 4WD 3.0l automatic

OK so I've done extensive searching on this forum, Google, YouTube, reddit, and wow this forum by far has the greatest concentration of knowledge I've ever seen! I also frequent some mustang forums which I thought had some great info but this place is great! OK enough sucking up. Yes I know another brake thread and I'm sorry I know it's been asked on here hundreds of times but I'm having more than the one issue I believe.

History
Got the vehicle last November from carmart when our Buick enclave ate its timing chain two weeks after the extended warranty. At first it was great but by January issues started to pop up but all related to the brake system. First the ABS and traction control light came on would stay on for 5 or 6 drive cycles and then turn off. Also after the abs light had been on for a day or so the passenger rotor was very hot. Going to sound gross but I did the spit test on it. Spit a bit onto driver side rotor and it just rolled down, spit on the passenger and it evaporated instantly. However the next day the driver side rotor was literally smoking hot after just a drive through town. Also around this time is when the first sounds started coming through. If I am at a stop and I let go off the brakes I can hear the caliper release and it groans. It sounds like passenger side but also at times driver side. If I bounce on the brake it groans loudly and is a metallic groan. I went to pull my wheels to get a closer look at the calipers and whoever owned the vehicle previously must have used an impact on them because I had to use a 3 foot breaker bar to loosen them. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs and a 4 way was just laughing at me. Then I tried to get the slide caliper pin bolts loose and they were also super tight! Had to use the breaker bar again and the pins were rusted with no lubricant. This was true for both driver and passenger front calipers. I replaced the driver brake line because after the literal smoke coming out I thought maybe it was a collapsed brake line causing caliper hanging and put new slide pins in with lubricant.

This seemed to work for awhile but the weird groaning was still there. Money got tight so just let a sleeping dog lie for a bit. Abs traction came back on a month later. Finally learned about forscan and got the code C1095 which basically said I need to replace my HCU due to faulty circuit. Searched all over and tone rings seemed to be the winner. Checked all of them and they are all good, plus I figure it would have tossed a sensor error as well if it actually was the tone ring.

Questions
1.
Can the HCU cause brakes to stick so that when you let off the brake it doesn't let the caliper disengage fully if it is faulty?

2. Can a bad wheel bearing(s) cause all these problems? Because I'm pretty sure that at least my passenger one is on the way out and probably due to the brakes dragging on that side more than the driver.

3. Can a bad HCU cause the vehicle to feel like the brakes are applied when letting off the accelerator? When I'm rolling at say 45 mph if I let off the accelerator I can feel the car slowing down like I'm driving into a strong wind.

4. Could this just be two gremlins that are not correlated? As in could my calipers be dragging because of a seperate issue and the HCU just happened to go out at the same time?

Plans
1. Going to go ahead and replace both wheel bearings with a hub assembly from rockauto, I'm confident the passenger is bad I can hear the classic whomwhomwhom sound coming from it and figured I'm replacing one side might as well do both.

2. Going to replace passenger brake line

3. Going to replace entire brake assembly both sides caliper/rotor/pads for ceramic

4. Regarding the HCU, I've found a refurbished one for 240 and will replace that but I'm going to have to figure out how to Vin match it with the forscan software.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! If any of this sounds like a bad idea please speak up! I hate being the throw parts at the problem guy but I honestly don't know what else to do at this point.

Thanks
Thank you!
 

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2020 Ttanium Hybrid/2009 Limited Hybrid/1978 F-250 Custom
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2010 Escape limited 4WD 3.0l automatic

OK so I've done extensive searching on this forum, Google, YouTube, reddit, and wow this forum by far has the greatest concentration of knowledge I've ever seen! I also frequent some mustang forums which I thought had some great info but this place is great! OK enough sucking up. Yes I know another brake thread and I'm sorry I know it's been asked on here hundreds of times but I'm having more than the one issue I believe.

History
Got the vehicle last November from carmart when our Buick enclave ate its timing chain two weeks after the extended warranty. At first it was great but by January issues started to pop up but all related to the brake system. First the ABS and traction control light came on would stay on for 5 or 6 drive cycles and then turn off. Also after the abs light had been on for a day or so the passenger rotor was very hot. Going to sound gross but I did the spit test on it. Spit a bit onto driver side rotor and it just rolled down, spit on the passenger and it evaporated instantly. However the next day the driver side rotor was literally smoking hot after just a drive through town. Also around this time is when the first sounds started coming through. If I am at a stop and I let go off the brakes I can hear the caliper release and it groans. It sounds like passenger side but also at times driver side. If I bounce on the brake it groans loudly and is a metallic groan. I went to pull my wheels to get a closer look at the calipers and whoever owned the vehicle previously must have used an impact on them because I had to use a 3 foot breaker bar to loosen them. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs and a 4 way was just laughing at me. Then I tried to get the slide caliper pin bolts loose and they were also super tight! Had to use the breaker bar again and the pins were rusted with no lubricant. This was true for both driver and passenger front calipers. I replaced the driver brake line because after the literal smoke coming out I thought maybe it was a collapsed brake line causing caliper hanging and put new slide pins in with lubricant.

This seemed to work for awhile but the weird groaning was still there. Money got tight so just let a sleeping dog lie for a bit. Abs traction came back on a month later. Finally learned about forscan and got the code C1095 which basically said I need to replace my HCU due to faulty circuit. Searched all over and tone rings seemed to be the winner. Checked all of them and they are all good, plus I figure it would have tossed a sensor error as well if it actually was the tone ring.

Questions
1.
Can the HCU cause brakes to stick so that when you let off the brake it doesn't let the caliper disengage fully if it is faulty?

2. Can a bad wheel bearing(s) cause all these problems? Because I'm pretty sure that at least my passenger one is on the way out and probably due to the brakes dragging on that side more than the driver.

3. Can a bad HCU cause the vehicle to feel like the brakes are applied when letting off the accelerator? When I'm rolling at say 45 mph if I let off the accelerator I can feel the car slowing down like I'm driving into a strong wind.

4. Could this just be two gremlins that are not correlated? As in could my calipers be dragging because of a seperate issue and the HCU just happened to go out at the same time?

Plans
1. Going to go ahead and replace both wheel bearings with a hub assembly from rockauto, I'm confident the passenger is bad I can hear the classic whomwhomwhom sound coming from it and figured I'm replacing one side might as well do both.

2. Going to replace passenger brake line

3. Going to replace entire brake assembly both sides caliper/rotor/pads for ceramic

4. Regarding the HCU, I've found a refurbished one for 240 and will replace that but I'm going to have to figure out how to Vin match it with the forscan software.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! If any of this sounds like a bad idea please speak up! I hate being the throw parts at the problem guy but I honestly don't know what else to do at this point.

Thanks
Thank you!
based on your description, with it moving from side to side… I would be looking at the master cylinder first.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK master cylinder is added to the list and I'll do some research on that, I've never replaced one before but it doesn't seem too difficult. I've swapped Motors in cars but never a master cylinder lol thanks for the alternate direction!
 

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When you do the master cylinder, it seems they bleed easier if you pre-bleed using a pair of tubes that recycle the brake fluid back into the reservoir. I have not been able personally to bleed them while trying to bleed the rest of the system. IOW, do the master first, no matter what. It is going to be a mess, so I would prepare by draping with absorbent to avoid the paint damage before starting bleeding the master.
I just wonder how a failing master can cause one side then the other to be 'grabby' or causing it to not retract. They would both be on the same hydraulic circuit. Could that be different because they run through the ABS, and are not really on the same circuit?
I would also suggest exercising the calipers before assembly. Only from my own experience with 're-man' calipers in the recent past. They were stickier than one of the calipers replaced, and I look back with regret I replaced the pair instead of the single one that was acting up.
tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tip: Anytime I have a brake problem and I believe the ABS is causing it, I remove the ABS fuse to take it offline and continue my testing.
Ok thanks! It's been raining for days so I haven't been able to get back to this problem as I don't have a garage but as soon as I can I'll pull the fuse from the fuse box under the hood and see what happens.
 

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2010 Escape limited 4WD 3.0l automatic

OK so I've done extensive searching on this forum, Google, YouTube, reddit, and wow this forum by far has the greatest concentration of knowledge I've ever seen! I also frequent some mustang forums which I thought had some great info but this place is great! OK enough sucking up. Yes I know another brake thread and I'm sorry I know it's been asked on here hundreds of times but I'm having more than the one issue I believe.

History
Got the vehicle last November from carmart when our Buick enclave ate its timing chain two weeks after the extended warranty. At first it was great but by January issues started to pop up but all related to the brake system. First the ABS and traction control light came on would stay on for 5 or 6 drive cycles and then turn off. Also after the abs light had been on for a day or so the passenger rotor was very hot. Going to sound gross but I did the spit test on it. Spit a bit onto driver side rotor and it just rolled down, spit on the passenger and it evaporated instantly. However the next day the driver side rotor was literally smoking hot after just a drive through town. Also around this time is when the first sounds started coming through. If I am at a stop and I let go off the brakes I can hear the caliper release and it groans. It sounds like passenger side but also at times driver side. If I bounce on the brake it groans loudly and is a metallic groan. I went to pull my wheels to get a closer look at the calipers and whoever owned the vehicle previously must have used an impact on them because I had to use a 3 foot breaker bar to loosen them. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs and a 4 way was just laughing at me. Then I tried to get the slide caliper pin bolts loose and they were also super tight! Had to use the breaker bar again and the pins were rusted with no lubricant. This was true for both driver and passenger front calipers. I replaced the driver brake line because after the literal smoke coming out I thought maybe it was a collapsed brake line causing caliper hanging and put new slide pins in with lubricant.

This seemed to work for awhile but the weird groaning was still there. Money got tight so just let a sleeping dog lie for a bit. Abs traction came back on a month later. Finally learned about forscan and got the code C1095 which basically said I need to replace my HCU due to faulty circuit. Searched all over and tone rings seemed to be the winner. Checked all of them and they are all good, plus I figure it would have tossed a sensor error as well if it actually was the tone ring.

Questions
1.
Can the HCU cause brakes to stick so that when you let off the brake it doesn't let the caliper disengage fully if it is faulty?

2. Can a bad wheel bearing(s) cause all these problems? Because I'm pretty sure that at least my passenger one is on the way out and probably due to the brakes dragging on that side more than the driver.

3. Can a bad HCU cause the vehicle to feel like the brakes are applied when letting off the accelerator? When I'm rolling at say 45 mph if I let off the accelerator I can feel the car slowing down like I'm driving into a strong wind.

4. Could this just be two gremlins that are not correlated? As in could my calipers be dragging because of a seperate issue and the HCU just happened to go out at the same time?

Plans
1. Going to go ahead and replace both wheel bearings with a hub assembly from rockauto, I'm confident the passenger is bad I can hear the classic whomwhomwhom sound coming from it and figured I'm replacing one side might as well do both.

2. Going to replace passenger brake line

3. Going to replace entire brake assembly both sides caliper/rotor/pads for ceramic

4. Regarding the HCU, I've found a refurbished one for 240 and will replace that but I'm going to have to figure out how to Vin match it with the forscan software.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! If any of this sounds like a bad idea please speak up! I hate being the throw parts at the problem guy but I honestly don't know what else to do at this point.

Thanks
Thank you!
Vin mismatch, Forscan won't fix a mismatch. You have to find someone with Ford's IDS. This will fix the mismatch.

Product Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Vin mismatch, Forscan won't fix a mismatch. You have to find someone with Ford's IDS. This will fix the mismatch.

View attachment 2482
Thank you very much for the snap shot! Hmm well if the forscan won't work guess I'll have to call my local dealership and ask them if they can do it for me, would this cause the vehicle not to start/run to where I would have to tow it to them or would I be able to drive it and have them match it up if they were willing? Electrical side of repair is not my strongest, I'm good enough to swap parts and do some minor electrical diagnosis but when it starts getting into open or closed gates and resistors my brain tends to shut off lol
 

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I do not think that a dysfunctional ABS would disable use of a vehicle. If that were the case, someone would get stranded and be unable to get to safe conditions, and someone else would likely be sued. ABS is not a 'must have for safe operation' type feature. At least that's how I would view it.
tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I do not think that a dysfunctional ABS would disable use of a vehicle. If that were the case, someone would get stranded and be unable to get to safe conditions, and someone else would likely be sued. ABS is not a 'must have for safe operation' type feature. At least that's how I would view it.
tom
A VIN mismatch would not prevent the vehicle from starting and driving normally. But, the ABS light will be on, not the check engine light. ABS would be disabled.
Ok great thanks guys, as soon as I get some money together I'm going to tackle this problem. In the mean time I'm going to try to narrow down more on what exactly I might need to replace so I'm not throwing parts at a problem without necessity. I'll keep this post updated as I go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Tip: Anytime I have a brake problem and I believe the ABS is causing it, I remove the ABS fuse to take it offline and continue my testing.
I pulled the square 50(?) fuse out of the battery junction box under the hood. Strangely enough this caused my abs and tc lights to turn off and now my driver seat power function is disabled which I don't know why that would be on the same circuit seems weird.

However, I still have the grinding when I slowly let off the brake and I'm still getting intermittent brake drag or what I assume is brake drag as it feels like when you lightly press on the brake to bleed off speed going down a hill but at all times regardless of slope of the road.

Also new symptom yesterday while driving under 45 mph my steering wheel shook violently side to side but in short increments. It only lasted about 500 yards then stopped. I'm starting to think I have more than just brake problems and perhaps there is some steering linkage issues as well. This is turning into a gremlins 2 nightmare lol. So since I've pulled the ABS fuse that means that the abs is completely deactivated correct? As in it should not be able to effect the brakes at all?


Also, prior to doing this I did a PID test with the forscan software and had wheel speed for each wheel activated and went for a drive. All 4 wheels showed proper speed readings so I can assume my speed sensors are good correct?
 

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Yes, if you see all four wheels spinning equally, the wheel speed sensors are working correctly. But, you still may have an ABS pump motor failure.

The grinding noise you hear, any rust on the rotors from the recent rains? New brake pads are tapered to reduce brake squeal. As pads wear, the taper disappears and the surface area of the pads becomes larger. This larger pad area now has contact with rotor areas it did not have before. This new area has to be cleaned by the pads, sometimes causing noise.

I recommend leaving the ABS alone and focus on the calipers, rotors and pads...all four wheels. When removing rotors, mark the wheel stud to the rotor hole and return to the same position. All slide points of the calipers must be wire brush clean and lubed. Caliper pins must be wire bushed clean with no pitting and lubed. All slide points must be clean and lubed, but not too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, if you see all four wheels spinning equally, the wheel speed sensors are working correctly. But, you still may have an ABS pump motor failure.

The grinding noise you hear, any rust on the rotors from the recent rains? New brake pads are tapered to reduce brake squeal. As pads wear, the taper disappears and the surface area of the pads becomes larger. This larger pad area now has contact with rotor areas it did not have before. This new area has to be cleaned by the pads, sometimes causing noise.

I recommend leaving the ABS alone and focus on the calipers, rotors and pads...all four wheels. When removing rotors, mark the wheel stud to the rotor hole and return to the same position. All slide points of the calipers must be wire brush clean and lubed. Caliper pins must be wire bushed clean with no pitting and lubed. All slide points must be clean and lubed, but not too much.
No rust on the rotors and the pads are relatively new probably only 8000 miles on them. The noise is almost a groaning grind, I'll try to get a video of it or at least a audio file and add it to this thread. Thank you for the procedure I'll follow it, I've never matched the rotor back to the hub before but it makes sense. Going to inspect the brake pad clips and while I'm in there will double check slide pins for rust and lubrication. I'm wondering if the fact I had to use a 3 foot breaker on the lugs and again on the caliper to caliper bracket bolts if that over tightening might have caused damage to the calipers and my wheel bearings, I'll have to figure out a way to get the vehicle up all 4 wheels off the ground and see what happens when I spin them individually. Need to look into the jack stands points for the rear. I have one set of 3 ton Jack stands and one set of 1.5 ton, so I need to go ahead and get another set of 3 ton or will the 1.5 ton be good enough for the rear?
 

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Over tighten lug nuts would not affect the wheel bearing or caliper. The matting surfaces are wheel flange to hub flange, two flat areas.

Now to the rear brakes. Is the rear disc brake caliper also the parking brake, or does the rotor have a built-in drum for the parking brake shoes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Over tighten lug nuts would not affect the wheel bearing or caliper. The matting surfaces are wheel flange to hub flange, two flat areas.

Now to the rear brakes. Is the rear disc brake caliper also the parking brake, or does the rotor have a built-in drum for the parking brake shoes?
Good to know that the over tightening wouldn't effect it that narrows down my diagnostics. As for the rear the vehicle is equipped with drums on the back that I haven't opened yet due to thinking the problem being isolated to the front. I do plan on opening them up when I get into the hands on portion of checking out every aspect of the brake system. I'm not super familiar with drums as all my previous vehicles had 4 wheel disc brakes but I assume the parking brake is the kind that applies pressure to the brake shoes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
2010 still has drums on the rear? Are you sure? A disc braking with hydraulics, and simple drum parking brake with cable is more likely. Or, is the parking brake built into the caliper?
I'm positive it surprised me as well when I did my walk around before purchase. I'm not 100% sure on how the parking brake works on drum brakes though, I'm going to watch some YouTube videos on it before I tackle that brake drum system it seems a bit complicated compared to disc brake a lot more pieces need to come off and be inspected.
 

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I'm positive it surprised me as well when I did my walk around before purchase. I'm not 100% sure on how the parking brake works on drum brakes though, I'm going to watch some YouTube videos on it before I tackle that brake drum system it seems a bit complicated compared to disc brake a lot more pieces need to come off and be inspected.
If you're unfamiliar with drum brakes, make sure you only take one side apart at a time. That way you have reference to look at while you're reassembling. Or take a bunch of pictures.
 

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The weight of the rear wheels cannot possibly be anywhere near 1.5T, that being 3,000 pounds. The whole vehicle is likely less than 4,000. You should have no problem with support given that the jack stands are not a safety hazard in them self. If the stands have thin metal at the 'feet', be sure they are placed on a hard surface such as concrete or use a piece of wood, as the thin metal can slowly cut into asphalt and oops.
tom
 
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