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Saturn was a winner for a while. Till the bean counters got a hold of the bottom line and turned it into another Oldsmobile. Which they also ran out of business by following the faulty GM business model. They never learn over there. Currently they have also badge engineered a GMC SUV that is thinly based on the Chevy model. D'[email protected]#$%^&* :censor: :cuss: :wall: :rant:

Okay, I've settled down now.

DUMMIES!
 

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It's too bad really, I was ready for Saturn to become something different. A new north american company starting with a clean slate could be a real boon to the domestic auto industry.
I'm still hoping we get a chance to see Opels built here.
 

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Unfortunately for Saturn, GM has a history of finally getting a model sorted out and refined just as sales of that model have fallen to the point where the model run needs to be ended.

Saturn was just beginning to get a line of good cars, too. IMHO, the Aura was the best-looking of the Malibu/G6/Aura platform. The Astra is a really good small car, and a big competitor to the Focus in Europe. The new Vue was giving the Escape some competition here. And I wouldn't kick the Sky out of my garage.

You're right about Penske, Michael. I thought for sure that he'd be able to take over Saturn and keep it alive.

:shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jonas1022 said:
Saturn was a winner for a while. Till the bean counters got a hold of the bottom line and turned it into another Oldsmobile. Which they also ran out of business by following the faulty GM business model. They never learn over there. Currently they have also badge engineered a GMC SUV that is thinly based on the Chevy model. D'[email protected]#$%^&* :censor: :cuss: :wall: :rant:

Okay, I've settled down now.

DUMMIES!
I've been saying this since last November when they started talking about thinning the brands. It makes complete sense to me to keep Chevy, Buick (mostly because of China), and Cadillac. That seems like a good lineup to walk people up the chain to more expensive models as they make more. It have never made any sense to me why they kept GMC. They don't make anything that Chevrolet doesn't make. It should have been Chevy with cars only (which would never fly) with GMC trucks, or Chevy with no GMC. :shrug:

P.S. I've been saying the same thing about Mercury for years too. They need to get something other than re-badged Fords in there or turn off the lights.
 

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MichaelJD1980 said:
jonas1022 said:
Saturn was a winner for a while. Till the bean counters got a hold of the bottom line and turned it into another Oldsmobile. Which they also ran out of business by following the faulty GM business model. They never learn over there. Currently they have also badge engineered a GMC SUV that is thinly based on the Chevy model. D'[email protected]#$%^&* :censor: :cuss: :wall: :rant:

Okay, I've settled down now.

DUMMIES!
I've been saying this since last November when they started talking about thinning the brands. It makes complete sense to me to keep Chevy, Buick (mostly because of China), and Cadillac. That seems like a good lineup to walk people up the chain to more expensive models as they make more. It have never made any sense to me why they kept GMC. They don't make anything that Chevrolet doesn't make. It should have been Chevy with cars only (which would never fly) with GMC trucks, or Chevy with no GMC. :shrug:

P.S. I've been saying the same thing about Mercury for years too. They need to get something other than re-badged Fords in there or turn off the lights.
According to Big Alan, the Mercury model line is going to become more differentiated. They have already killed the Sable, and will probably not do a Mercury version of the Fiesta or Focus in the future. So what are they to sell is a mystery to me. Mariners are nice, and the Milan is a neat car. But the Marquis which I love but don't buy is supported by the elderly loving their barges. I love them too, but not in the marketing sense. Ford needs some new blood at the sign of the cat.

As for GM, they don't have to have Buick in the USA, it does not make sense, Pontiac sells more...and it's getting the axe? Simply build the same car, just engineer the lable. Pontiac sells well here, call them Pontiacs. Buick sells well in China, label them Buick over there! But to axe a brand that sells is pure bone headed. If GM doesn't make it, the execs making those decisions need to be prosecueted. As for Saturn, it's a made up name, without any history. Loose it. Not like Oldsmobile, the oldest brand in the USA. And they dump it. Dummies.
 

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jonas1022 said:
MichaelJD1980 said:
jonas1022 said:
Saturn was a winner for a while. Till the bean counters got a hold of the bottom line and turned it into another Oldsmobile. Which they also ran out of business by following the faulty GM business model. They never learn over there. Currently they have also badge engineered a GMC SUV that is thinly based on the Chevy model. D'[email protected]#$%^&* :censor: :cuss: :wall: :rant:

Okay, I've settled down now.

DUMMIES!
I've been saying this since last November when they started talking about thinning the brands. It makes complete sense to me to keep Chevy, Buick (mostly because of China), and Cadillac. That seems like a good lineup to walk people up the chain to more expensive models as they make more. It have never made any sense to me why they kept GMC. They don't make anything that Chevrolet doesn't make. It should have been Chevy with cars only (which would never fly) with GMC trucks, or Chevy with no GMC. :shrug:

P.S. I've been saying the same thing about Mercury for years too. They need to get something other than re-badged Fords in there or turn off the lights.
According to Big Alan, the Mercury model line is going to become more differentiated. They have already killed the Sable, and will probably not do a Mercury version of the Fiesta or Focus in the future. So what are they to sell is a mystery to me. Mariners are nice, and the Milan is a neat car. But the Marquis which I love but don't buy is supported by the elderly loving their barges. I love them too, but not in the marketing sense. Ford needs some new blood at the sign of the cat.

As for GM, they don't have to have Buick in the USA, it does not make sense, Pontiac sells more...and it's getting the axe? Simply build the same car, just engineer the lable. Pontiac sells well here, call them Pontiacs. Buick sells well in China, label them Buick over there! But to axe a brand that sells is pure bone headed. If GM doesn't make it, the execs making those decisions need to be prosecueted. As for Saturn, it's a made up name, without any history. Loose it. Not like Oldsmobile, the oldest brand in the USA. Out selling everything Saturn. And they dump it. Dummies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jonas1022 said:
MichaelJD1980 said:
jonas1022 said:
Saturn was a winner for a while. Till the bean counters got a hold of the bottom line and turned it into another Oldsmobile. Which they also ran out of business by following the faulty GM business model. They never learn over there. Currently they have also badge engineered a GMC SUV that is thinly based on the Chevy model. D'[email protected]#$%^&* :censor: :cuss: :wall: :rant:

Okay, I've settled down now.

DUMMIES!
I've been saying this since last November when they started talking about thinning the brands. It makes complete sense to me to keep Chevy, Buick (mostly because of China), and Cadillac. That seems like a good lineup to walk people up the chain to more expensive models as they make more. It have never made any sense to me why they kept GMC. They don't make anything that Chevrolet doesn't make. It should have been Chevy with cars only (which would never fly) with GMC trucks, or Chevy with no GMC. :shrug:

P.S. I've been saying the same thing about Mercury for years too. They need to get something other than re-badged Fords in there or turn off the lights.
According to Big Alan, the Mercury model line is going to become more differentiated. They have already killed the Sable, and will probably not do a Mercury version of the Fiesta or Focus in the future. So what are they to sell is a mystery to me. Mariners are nice, and the Milan is a neat car. But the Marquis which I love but don't buy is supported by the elderly loving their barges. I love them too, but not in the marketing sense. Ford needs some new blood at the sign of the cat.

As for GM, they don't have to have Buick in the USA, it does not make sense, Pontiac sells more...and it's getting the axe? Simply build the same car, just engineer the lable. Pontiac sells well here, call them Pontiacs. Buick sells well in China, label them Buick over there! But to axe a brand that sells is pure bone headed. If GM doesn't make it, the execs making those decisions need to be prosecueted. As for Saturn, it's a made up name, without any history. Loose it. Not like Oldsmobile, the oldest brand in the USA. And they dump it. Dummies.
I think that the answer to the "Buick question" is that the reason that Buick sells so well in China is BECAUSE it is sold in the U.S. It is seen as "American Luxury." If they didn't sell Buicks in the U.S. anymore, then they wouldn't sell as well in China either.

And I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a rebirth of the Pontiac brand someday when GM is privatized again. I think the hangman's noose was only used at the direction of the "Car Czar." My hunch is based on the fact that private investors offered to buy the name like Penske did with Saturn, but they were told that "Pontiac" was not for sale in any way, shape, or form. That tells me that the General is holding onto the name for future use.
 

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MichaelJD1980, you make an interesting point about the Buick lable and why it sells in China. The marketing research company that GM hired to find out why they sold in China said that the Chinese have always liked the Buick name. Now it's a matter of some family member having owned one half a century ago in a China far, far away... ;)
 

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Saturn may be gone, but THE CAPRICE IS BAAACK! Yeeaahhhhh!

I predicted this when the G8 was killed and Holden was left hanging, but never really thought they would pull through with it.
 

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Not sold to the public...so it isn't a part of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy computations?

I dunno, just a thought.
 

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Just read this morning that the Opel sale is also a no go. I have to wonder if GM went before congress and said "we're having a clearance sale!" just to get the bailout money.
The Saturn, Pontiac, and Opal brands all could have had new owners but I don't think the General ever had any intention of giving these up.
Sorry Feds we've already cashed that cheque, it's in the bank now.
 

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Has GM in fact taken all of the money they asked for and were granted by the Congress? I dont' know, but I thought that they had only used 65% or so of what was made available to them. Newspaper article as I recall.

Same with the Mortgage thing. Not all the money made available has been utilized.

Banks are another matter entirely. They took it all, and gave it away in executive bonuses... :doh:
 

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It amazes me that when GM finally stocked Saturn with some of the best products available from any GM division in years, they cancelled the division without taking anything from them.

IMHO, the Aura is MUCH better-looking than the Malibu, and it's on the same platform and manufactured in the same plant. It could be really eating into Fusion sales, which the Malibu can't do. The Astra is the small car GM should be selling instead of the Aveo. The Vue is a very competitive small SUV/crossover that could have really been a hit with anything more than the indifferent advertising it got.

:shrug:

I guess this is why GM is falling apart. For Ford, this is all good news, and it's at least a small part of the reason that Ford just posted a third-quarter profit of US$1 Billion.
 
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