[Scooter Scott]

Copyright 2008 Associated Press
All Rights Reserved

Associated Press Online

June 11, 2008 Wednesday 5:09 AM GMT

SECTION: BUSINESS NEWS

LENGTH: 258 words

HEADLINE: Toyota promises plug-in hybrid by 2010

BYLINE: By YURI KAGEYAMA, AP Business Writer

DATELINE: TOKYO

BODY:

Toyota said Wednesday it will introduce a plug-in hybrid vehicle with next-generation lithium-ion batteries in Japan, the U.S. and Europe by 2010.

The ecological gas-electric vehicles, which can be recharged from a home electrical outlet, will target fleet customers, Toyota Motor Corp. said in a statement. Such plug-in hybrids can run longer as an electric vehicle than regular hybrids.

Lithium-ion batteries, now common in laptops, produce more power and are smaller than nickel-metal hydride batteries common in most hybrids now.

The joint venture that Toyota set up with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., whichmakes Panasonic products, will begin producing lithium-ion batteries in 2009 and move into full-scale production in 2010, Toyota said.

Toyota also said it's setting up a battery research department later this month to develop an innovative battery that can outperform even that lithium-ion battery.

Japan's top automaker, which leads the industry in gas-electric hybrids, has said it will rev up hybrid sales to 1 million a year sometime after 2010.

Hybrids reduce pollution and emissions that are linked to global warming by switching between a gas engine and an electric motor to deliver better mileage than comparable standard cars. Their popularity is growing amid soaring oil prices and worries about global warming.

The Prius, which has been on sale for more than a decade, recently reached cumulative sales of 1 million vehicles. When including other Toyota hybrids, the company said it sold 1.5 million hybrids so far around the world.

 

[prowler]

and that's coming from the most successful electric car manufacturer in US history,

"for seven months in 2002 a full-sized production electric car was available for sale to the general public for the first time in decades."

"cost-per-mile, roughly equivalent to a vehicle capable of 166.6 mpg, based on a price of US$3.00 per gallon.
[Note: that's 222 mpg for $4.00 gas, or 278 mpg for $5.00 gas].

see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

-Sparky

 

[Scooter Scott]

Truly a great marvel for Toyota if they complete it and it proves to be what all of the hype is.

 

[jonas1022]

Something like that would work well for my wife to drive to work. Her round trip is less than 20 miles. The range of the plug in is about 40 miles, or so I have read elsewhere. The down side is that you don't get any regenerative input, and so that is the range of the vehicle for a given 24 hour period...

They need to do more work, but things are getting closer to working out on electric cars. :yes:

 

[jonas1022]

Another version of the same press release as provided by Toyota. It has a little more information in this article. I am still looking for the other referenced article that I read last week on these cars. This one is from Autoblog.

David

"Toyota Motor Corp. on Wednesday fired a fresh volley in the green car wars, promising two new hybrid vehicles and the start of lithium-ion battery production next year.

The two hybrids--one badged a Toyota, the other a Lexus--will debut at the Detroit auto show and come on top of the third-generation Prius car, also due in 2009.

Toyota didn't give further details about the upcoming vehicles. But Masatami Takimoto, executive vice president in charge of r&d, said the Toyota will be larger than the Prius.

"It's a totally new car," Takimoto said in Tokyo.

For the redesigned Prius, Toyota will stick with the current generation's nickel-metal hydride batteries. The long-awaited lithium-ion batteries, light in weight and high in power, will debut in Toyota's first plug-in hybrid, due in 2010, he said.

More batteries

Panasonic EV Energy Co., the joint venture that makes Toyota's hybrid vehicle batteries, will start making the lithium-ion batteries in 2009, Takimoto said. Panasonic EV is building the production line at its main plant in Shizuoka, southwest of Tokyo.

Initial output will test quality consistency. Mass production will begin in 2010.

Toyota outlined the plans as part of a sweeping environmental blueprint that touched on sustainable r&d, manufacturing and social responsibility.

The move comes as rivals Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. beef up their own green car programs. Honda announced last month that it will launch four hybrid vehicles by 2015.

That same week, Nissan said it will start mass-producing lithium-ion batteries next year.

Lithium-ion batteries are seen as a key to jump-starting the market for low-emissions gasoline-electric hybrid and pure electric vehicles. They are lighter and more powerful than the nickel-metal hydride batteries now used in hybrids.

Beyond lithium

Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said he already is thinking beyond lithium.

To that end, the automaker is setting up a battery research department this month to develop a post-lithium-ion battery with even better performance, he said.

Takimoto said the department will start with 50 people and double the staffing in two years. Possible chemistries for the new batteries include metal-air batteries, he said.

Toyota is racing to crank up battery production so it can meet its goal of selling 1 million hybrid vehicles a year in the early 2010s. A shortage of batteries is one reason Toyota hasn't been able to boost production of the Prius to meet booming global demand.

Among Toyota's other green initiatives:

-- New 1.3-liter and 2.5-liter gasoline engines featuring stop-start technology, due this year.

-- A new, highly efficient, compact six-speed manual transmission, arriving in the fall.

-- Cutting carbon dioxide emissions from factories to 35 percent of 2001 levels by 2010."

 

[prowler]

The down side is that you don't get any regenerative input,

Are you sure about that? Regenerative braking is a less expensive range extender than batteries, and Toyota certainly has the technology and economies-of-scale from their current hybrids to include it.

 

[jpark]

Any permanent-magnet DC motor becomes a generator when its RPM output is greater than the voltage needed to turn it. If you've ever shorted the terminals of a PM DC motor while it's spinning, you'll notice that 1) it sparks as you short the terminals, and 2) it stops almost instantly.

I'd guess that regenerative braking is sort of an assumed part of any vehicle using a PM DC motor now, even if it's not documented. It's sort of like leaving out the steering wheel and pedals from the standard-equipment list.

But I could be wrong.

 

[jonas1022]

I'm going by what they gave in the press release. They said the power source is only the plug-in capability. I should think that any company would specify that it had regenerative braking if their product in fact did have that capability.

Therefore, until we are told different I am assuming that it does not have regenerative braking. Instead I believe they are making it free-wheeling unless power is demanded for movement. It may actually be more efficient. MPG competitors routinely accelerate to a predetermined maximum speed and then coast back down to another predetermined low speed before accelerating again. All in the name of fuel efficiency. Could it be that is what Toyota is doing with their plug in cars? IDK, just an alternative consideration to regenerative braking.

 

[HybridArchitect]

The other company to watch is General Motors… they have come from downplaying hybrid vehicle options and focussing on fuel cell technology in 2004 (when Ford was launching the Escape Hybrid as the first American-based manufacturer to do so) to now offering the most diverse selection of hybrid vehicles to consumers.

They have also aggressively pursued the plug-in option (while Toyota was more cautious) and announced in 2006 that the Saturn Vue SUV would have a plug-in hybrid version available by 2009.

http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... 9-ish.html

Recent rumours from GM have the plug-in Vue slipping into 2010, so the race with Toyota to be first to market could be tight. Still, I have been very impressed by GM's recent efforts… they have been able to meet most of the release dates for 2-mode hybrid systems they projected a few years prior.

AND, don't count out Ford. They have certainly been testing plug-in versions of the Escape Hybrid for some time now:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/rev ... brid_N.htm

Unfortunately, their projected dates for release to the public are less aggressive than GM (and now Toyota). 2012 has often been mentioned, which would place them potentially two years behind the competition.

:box:

 

[jpark]

I'm going by what they gave in the press release. <snip>

I hear ya. I was only wondering if regenerative braking is now an assumed standard component of any electric vehicle.

Carry on.

 

[prowler]

Any permanent-magnet DC motor becomes a generator when its RPM output is greater than the voltage needed to turn it.

Even the Tesla has regenerative braking, and IT HAS AN AC MOTOR! (can anyone confirm whether the Ford FEH is AC or DC???)

-Sparky

 

[prowler]

I'm going by what they gave in the press release. They said the power source is only the plug-in capability. I should think that any company would specify that it had regenerative braking if their product in fact did have that capability.

A few questions come to mind:
1. Where is that in the press release? (I didn't see it).
2. Even if it is in there, it's not true - if it's a hybrid, there's also a gasoline-powered engine for a power source.
3. I wouldn't consider regenerative braking to be a "power source", it's capturing wasted power/energy, not sourcing it.

-Sparky

 

[jpark]

Any permanent-magnet DC motor becomes a generator when its RPM output is greater than the voltage needed to turn it.

Even the Tesla has regenerative braking, and IT HAS AN AC MOTOR! (can anyone confirm whether the Ford FEH is AC or DC???)

-Sparky

Ford says that it's a Permanent Magnet AC Synchronous motor.

AC or DC only determines how the current direction is used in the motor. Some AC motors take advantage of the fact that the coils constantly change polarity; that's what makes the motor turn. Either type can still be a generator if their coils are NOT electronically controlled.

 

[prowler]

The other company to watch is General Motors&#8230; they have come from downplaying hybrid vehicle options and focussing on fuel cell technology in 2004 (when Ford was launching the Escape Hybrid as the first American-based manufacturer to do so) to now offering the most diverse selection of hybrid vehicles to consumers.

I'm so glad that in your indepth treatise on GM hybrid vehicles you didn't consider the VOLT as a hybrid. As we all know, it's an electric vehicle with an onboard gasoline generator for extended range.

-Sparky

Note: GM's support of A123 for batteries for the VOLT may lead to the Li-ion breakthrough that we're ALL waiting for.

Note2: Did anyone know that you have the prowler and tesla to thank for the (hopeful) existence of the VOLT?

-prowler

 

[jpark]

The Volt is exactly how ALL vehicles should be powered by now. Since trains and ships have been powered this way for decades, it makes me wonder why it's taking so long to filter down to cars, but I'm sure the oil companies have their own "input". Watch the movie Tucker: The Man And His Dream, and you'll see how quickly this country can send a gift-wrapped torpedo to any project that poses even a tiny threat to out-of-control cash-cow industries.

I'd go one step further than the Volt: put an electric motor at each wheel, and power them all using a computer. That way, all vehicles have full-time all-wheel drive and regenerative braking. No transmission or mechanical brakes are needed at all. The tiny gasoline engine doing the bulk of the recharging can be replaced when other power sources become more cost-effective and widely available. When that happens, the only oil any vehicle would need is bearing grease---no more transmission fluid, no more engine oil, and no more gasoline.

If I had the time and the resources, I'd build a car like this. And I'd also watch my back.

 

[Scooter Scott]

We obviously have the technologies available...why no one can come up with something and mass produce it like that is beyond me.

 

[jpark]

Electric cars and hybrids pose a threat to big oil (you know, $100 Billion in profits in just one quarter)?

That's why Fox News is now running stories about the "dangers" of hybrid and electric cars.

:roll:

 

[Scooter Scott]

Dangers? Please...

 

[jpark]

Well, if you buy one, you'll hurt the oil companies.



:roll:

 

[Scooter Scott]

The oil companies can go **** ********** :censor: