[mechman600]

I have an 2002 Tribute EX-V6. When the engine is cold, whether it's -10C or 20C outside, it starts and runs fine. But if you warm it up to temp, shut it off and let it sit for 20 minutes, then it has to crank for quite a while to start. Sometimes it fires and then dies, requiring a second try. If the engine is warm and you shut it off, it will start fine if you start it again right away. I am thinking temp sensor failed in range. I'm borrowing a scan tool on Monday, so we'll see.

Has anybody run across this before?
Thanks in advance.

 

[jonas1022]

I am wondering if it's a fuel issue. As in vapor lock. Or a moisture issue with your gas? If you don't get any codes, maybe try some drygas. See if that does anything for you. I'm not claiming to know what it's actually doing. Just had this go round once before years ago on a Zetec 2.0L ZX2. That one can of dry gas solved this issue, whatever the fuel problem was. It went away with the dry gas. :shrug: Oh, no codes. At least on Auto Zone's tool. And it was bitterly cold at the time, like near 0*F. :frozen:

 

[ltlredscape]

i dont mean to be a dumkofph but what is "drygas"?

 

[jonas1022]

It's corn gas IIRC. No matter.

You can buy it at a parts store and pour it into your gastank. It will dry out any water in the gasoline, or even help melt a little bit of ice that might be in the tank or line.

It's very light, and will evaporate if the can is left open.

 

[ltlredscape]

like Iso Heet? i use that often. last time they changed the fuel filter in my escape (the day i bought it) they told me it had LOTS of water in the lines. got that all out.

 

[jonas1022]

:lol:

Yeah, I guess. I'm old school. I thought Iso Heet was something you put on sore muscles... :hyst:

 

[SUVord]

I have an 2002 Tribute EX-V6. When the engine is cold, whether it's -10C or 20C outside, it starts and runs fine. But if you warm it up to temp, shut it off and let it sit for 20 minutes, then it has to crank for quite a while to start. Sometimes it fires and then dies, requiring a second try. If the engine is warm and you shut it off, it will start fine if you start it again right away. I am thinking temp sensor failed in range. I'm borrowing a scan tool on Monday, so we'll see.

Has anybody run across this before?
Thanks in advance.

If it starts while keeping the throttle all the way to the floor, then it is likely a temperature sensor or the MAF itself, which causes flooding.
I take it that you can hear the gas pump when turning the key.If not, the pump relay contacts in the fuse box need some attention.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Idle air controller, engine coolant temperature sensor out of range, dirty MAF, all come to mind.
Any check engine warning lamps?

 

[mechman600]

Yes, I can hear the fuel pump when I key on. And letting it run for a few seconds first makes no difference in the way it starts. And there are no codes.

I am wondering if it's the MAF sensor myself, but once it's running it seems to be fine.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Next time, before you start your Escape (after letting it sit 20 minutes) turn the key to the run position but do not start the engine. Step outside and give the IAC a couple of raps with a plastic screwdriver handle. If it starts fine perhaps you may have pin pointed your problem. If it doesn't help please report back and we'll mull it over some more.

I have had previous success using this method to pinpoint a sticking IAC valve. Sometimes cleaning the valves does not help. I have to replace them.

Good luck.

 

[Four_Eyes]

When you crank it after the engine is warm, does it crank the same or slower?

What about when it re-starts, dies, then you re-start it again. Does it crank slower or the same?

When you say it has to crank for quite a while before it starts, how long is long, a few seconds....longer?

You didn't mention battery condition. I'm wondering if the battery is just strong enough to start it the first time, then still trying to re-charge when you crank it the subsequent times.....just throwing it out there.

 

[mechman600]

Yeah, the battery is good. It cranks over like crazy. A bad battery will cause hard starting when cold, not warm. It starts like a champ when it's stone cold. We're talking 4-6 seconds of [fast] cranking and when it starts warm, it doesn't fire on all holes immediately...aka: runs rough for a second or so and then runs PERFECTLY smooth.

Maniac Mechanic - thanks for the advice. I removed the IAC valve and found absolutely NO carbon whatsoever inside. The valve is sitting about 1mm off its seat and when I move it back and forth, the spring returns it quickly. Absolutely no stickiness, noot that this guarantess that the IAC valve is okay. Just for "fun", I unloaded a can of contact cleaner into it and air dried, reinstalled, turned on the key, gave it a whack, and.....nope. Still starts like a bear. Hmmmm.....

Oh, one more thing. If I give it a bit of throttle, it starts like a champ.

So I ended up on the Edmonds Tribute forum, and someone on there has the exact same complaint. A person responded with something to the effect of "replace malfunctioning EGR parts, as these tend to give problems." It may have been a blanket statement about something he had no idea about, but it sort of seemed like he knew a few things about Tributes/Escapes. It kind of makes sense that a leaking EGR valve would cause a "vacuum leak" of sorts that would show its ugly face while starting the engine. When the engine is cold, it may be fueling rich enough that a small leak would go unnoticed. But something tells me that codes for high EGR flow/DPFE would show up if the EGR valve was flowing when it is not supposed to, no? And when I shut the engine off hot and immediately restart it, it starts fine, which would probably not coincide with a leaking EGR valve. I think I may pull it off and see if I can blow through it. If I can, then that's the problem.

 

[SUVord]

Unfortunately, most vacuum related problems don't always throw up codes.
Also, after the engine has turned off and the leak is small, it takes a while for atmospheric pressure to settle in a vacuum hose, that is why the engine will re-start if tried within seconds after it has turned off.
The draw of fuel is relative to the vacuum.
If by giving it gas with the throttle it starts,as you say, a vacuum issue somewhere is the culprit.That might be a hose, the EGR valve or the DPFE.

 

[tomw]

The original post suggested a leaking injector that 'flooded' the intake manifold with extra fuel, making the mixture too rich to burn. I would try cracking the throttle open when the hard starting would occur, and see if the extra air allowed into the intake made the engine fire up sooner.
You can check the pressure maintained in the fuel system after it is shut down to find out if it is leaking into the intake or leaking back into the gas tank past the check valve.
tom

 

[mechman600]

How is watching the fuel pressure decay going to determine where it is leaking to? If it is leaking back through the check valve or through an injector, a gauge will show the same thing: pressure decay over time. The only way to narrow it down would be to install two valves in series in the fuel line with a pressure gauge in between them. Start and stop the engine, then close the valve on the tank side of the gauge. If the pressure drops, the fuel is bleeding through an injector. If you do the same but close the valve on the engine side of the gauge and the pressure drops, the fuel is bleeding past the check valve. BUT....there is no place to install this setup on our cars. Good idea though.....

 

[alex0451]

So mechman600, what was the problem finally ? I have the exact same symptoms :?