Looking to do manual conversion on 2007 Hybrid Escape

[rick_tech15]

Just joined this forum, owned an 07 hybrid for a couple of months, and I love it! I really want a manual transmission, and was wondering if there was a way to do a manual swap while retaining the hybrid engine. Will a manual introduce some PCM problems? I just did a brake swap and was stuck in no brake pressure hell, so Im dreading this answer. Any and all answers are appreciated. Thanks.

[bangster]

Just with the multiple input paths needed and switching between the 2, I don't think it would work with a manual transmission.

[feh2goup]

How would you deal with the loss of the two electric motors inside the stock Hybrid's transmission? Without them the hybrid system simply will not work. Even if that could be resolved, you'd still have to write entirely new and unique software for the engine and hybrid control. Unfortunately this is basically impossible no matter how much time, money and skill you put into it.

And brake jobs on the Hybrid require a special procedure.

[rick_tech15]

How would you deal with the loss of the two electric motors inside the stock Hybrid's transmission? Without them the hybrid system simply will not work. Even if that could be resolved, you'd still have to write entirely new and unique software for the engine and hybrid control. Unfortunately this is basically impossible no matter how much time, money and skill you put into it.

And brake jobs on the Hybrid require a special procedure.

Couldn't I just have the engine run full time?

[bangster]

So you want an XLS Manual and not a hybrid? I would think selling the hybrid and finding an XLS manual would be the best course of action.

[EscapeFromLA]

Sorry to burst the bubble but there is absolutely, 100% no way to convert a hybrid to a manual transmission and doing so would destroy every single advantage the hybrid has over the standard configuration.

Firstly, as mentioned above, you would lose both electric motor/generators (at which point you're no longer talking about a hybrid) and would be left with a purpose-built atkinson cycle 4 cyl doing a much worse job driving the whole car than the standard 4 cyl would.

Secondly, you'd be throwing away the best transmission ever produced in a consumer vehicle.

Gear ratios are something of a compromise; tradeoff between mechanical advantage for the engine and a range of RPM it's able to effectively operate. At any given vehicle speed and power demand, there would be an ideal drive ratio (Engine RPMs per tire rotation) to pull the maximum amount of power from the engine, at the peak of its torque curve with the least relative system drag. This ideal drive ratio varies widely with speed, grade, wind resistance, and the conditions you're looking to satisfy (usually a balance of power and efficiency), but the closest you can come to it using a standard transmission is selecting whichever of the 5 available gear trains is off the least. It will almost never be ideal, and it will NEVER continue to be once any work is done.

What's so ingenious about the hybrid transmission is that, unlike the standard gear train, it is infinitely variable, using 1 gear set, thanks to the control afforded by the electric motors. This means you can get to that ideal drive ratio at any time, at any speed. In fact the reason accelerating sounds different is because the system is parking the engine RPM at max power output and adjusting the drive ratio to keep it there as the vehicle accelerates. It sounds like an airplane or a boat without the engine picking up RPM as your speed increases (which we're very used to hearing) and in fact is doing a perfect job of pulling energy from it as efficiently as possible; MUCH more so than a standard transmission could, hopping between less ideal ratios, and fully disengaging every time you need to change them...to say nothing of the extra gear train drag, and complete lack of electric assistance. And unlike other attempts at Continuously Variable Transmissions, it's able to do this with a simple planetary gear set; no belts, chains, conical pulleys, slushboxes, clutches, or really any wearing parts whatsoever. Check out the NYC cab teardown where they pull pristine parts out of a hybrid E that'd done 300k miles...and those people do not drive gingerly.


I had primarily manual cars before this; I miss the direct connection to the vehicle and the granular control it gave me....I get it. But I also understand that in literally every way, the hybrid transmission is a superior way to extract power from a combustion engine; it's more efficient, simpler, lighter.

If you really must have a shifter to manipulate while driving, sell the hybrid and buy something else. Otherwise, consider the compromise I arrived at myself; I traded a very fun 6sp manual, naturally aspirated 6cyl german coupe for the E Hybrid aaaaaaand....a motorcycle.

The bike satisfies everything I miss about manual driving, and does so at 45mpg (and mine's a fast bike). The E is much better at everything I need a full vehicle for including sitting in traffic (which there is a lot of here) and the bike is better at fun...by leaps and bounds.

[rick_tech15]

Sorry to burst the bubble but there is absolutely, 100% no way to convert a hybrid to a manual transmission and doing so would destroy every single advantage the hybrid has over the standard configuration.

Firstly, as mentioned above, you would lose both electric motor/generators (at which point you're no longer talking about a hybrid) and would be left with a purpose-built atkinson cycle 4 cyl doing a much worse job driving the whole car than the standard 4 cyl would.

Secondly, you'd be throwing away the best transmission ever produced in a consumer vehicle.

Gear ratios are something of a compromise; tradeoff between mechanical advantage for the engine and a range of RPM it's able to effectively operate. At any given vehicle speed and power demand, there would be an ideal drive ratio (Engine RPMs per tire rotation) to pull the maximum amount of power from the engine, at the peak of its torque curve with the least relative system drag. This ideal drive ratio varies widely with speed, grade, wind resistance, and the conditions you're looking to satisfy (usually a balance of power and efficiency), but the closest you can come to it using a standard transmission is selecting whichever of the 5 available gear trains is off the least. It will almost never be ideal, and it will NEVER continue to be once any work is done.

What's so ingenious about the hybrid transmission is that, unlike the standard gear train, it is infinitely variable, using 1 gear set, thanks to the control afforded by the electric motors. This means you can get to that ideal drive ratio at any time, at any speed. In fact the reason accelerating sounds different is because the system is parking the engine RPM at max power output and adjusting the drive ratio to keep it there as the vehicle accelerates. It sounds like an airplane or a boat without the engine picking up RPM as your speed increases (which we're very used to hearing) and in fact is doing a perfect job of pulling energy from it as efficiently as possible; MUCH more so than a standard transmission could, hopping between less ideal ratios, and fully disengaging every time you need to change them...to say nothing of the extra gear train drag, and complete lack of electric assistance. And unlike other attempts at Continuously Variable Transmissions, it's able to do this with a simple planetary gear set; no belts, chains, conical pulleys, slushboxes, clutches, or really any wearing parts whatsoever. Check out the NYC cab teardown where they pull pristine parts out of a hybrid E that'd done 300k miles...and those people do not drive gingerly.


I had primarily manual cars before this; I miss the direct connection to the vehicle and the granular control it gave me....I get it. But I also understand that in literally every way, the hybrid transmission is a superior way to extract power from a combustion engine; it's more efficient, simpler, lighter.

If you really must have a shifter to manipulate while driving, sell the hybrid and buy something else. Otherwise, consider the compromise I arrived at myself; I traded a very fun 6sp manual, naturally aspirated 6cyl german coupe for the E Hybrid aaaaaaand....a motorcycle.

The bike satisfies everything I miss about manual driving, and does so at 45mpg (and mine's a fast bike). The E is much better at everything I need a full vehicle for including sitting in traffic (which there is a lot of here) and the bike is better at fun...by leaps and bounds.

I'm really late at looking back on this, but i agree with you. I've come to the same compromise, and coincidentally, now own a motorcycle in addition to the hybrid, which I love.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Don't forget, when you ditch the CVT, and as mentioned previously you also ditch the two generator/motors. Without the generators you do not have a starter, and you also lose regenerative braking.